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Beauty

Nox Noctis
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Posted 09/24/08 - 11:21 PM:	#31
Hello all, first post on a philosophy forum EVER, or speaking of my personal philosophies publicly. In any event, beauty, in its purest form, is entirely composed of stimulation. I would like to take my girlfriend and throw her into my little philosophy mix here. When I look into her oceanic-blue eyes, I am reminded of my home on the Hawai'ian island of Kaua'i. The way the waterfalls meet with the pools at the bottom is stunning. I can hardly imagine a prettier sight. BUT! The very reason her eyes and my memories are so beautiful is because of STIMULATION. I am not simply stating that something is beautiful due to some precalculated, overblown calculation, my brain simply cannot retain all of the information I am processing as a whole or in the state it is currently in. In fact, my brain must convert any and all incoming information into some form of stimulus or another. Due to this sudden "Change-of-Phase", I simply perceive this as one whole thing that can be put into one whole word, BEAUTY. Back to my girlfriend. Her body is beautiful, her outlook on life is beautiful, and absolutely most importantly, her intellect is very, very beautiful. In fact, half of the time, I am simply too overwhelmed by her intellect that I cannot maintain simple conversations with her, even over material subjects such as whether or not she looks good on a particular day or somesuch. How is this related, you ask? Well, ask and you shall receive an answer. I perceive her wit and flirtatiousness beautiful because of all the stimuly being emanated. Others, such as her high school teachers (yes we are only 14... )find it overbearingly annoying, ALSO due to the multitude of stimuli, though they are, in my opinion, COMPLETE AND TOTAL NUMBSKULLS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT COMPREHEND AND PROCESS THOSE STIMULI AS BEAUTIFUL!!!!! My two cents, NOX NOCTUM Edited by Nox Noctis on 09/25/08 - 10:00 PM. Reason: spelling errors...

Tom90
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Posted 10/02/08 - 12:25 PM:	#32
saxystyk wrote: No matter what is said, beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder. Totally agree with saxystyk here - People's perceptions are obviously going to be different. Beauty is something which must be realised. If I watch a sunset and say its beautiful - then in my eyes it is beautiful. If there was the same sunset and I was not present it would not be beautiful as there would be no one there to say or think it was. I was thinking about what makes something beautiful the other day. Beauty is personal not universal. I may think that this girl is beautiful but my friend may think otherwise. Where do we get this idea of beauty from though? It has to be different for each person - I take pleasure in looking at paintings that are delicate and precise and in general I dislike paintings that are portrayed to show a lack of care. I think this is because when I paint I tend to be careful and precise & loathe making the tiniest mistakes.

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 10/03/08 - 07:43 AM:	#33
Landlady wrote: When one looks at a sunset and calls it a beautiful sunset, where is this beauty located? Is the beauty in the sunset itself, or is it in the person looking at it? Does the sunset possess this beauty or does it simply act as a reflection of something already in a person? I'll use a mentalist approach to this query, shattering the division of subjective and objective. The sunset appeals to us because of its oval shape. A baby's first experience of life is the facial surface of a parent, lit up, breaking off the surrounding darkness, creating a sensation of "the otherworldly." From that moment onward, beauty is the glimmering light surrounded by darkness. As such, all indistinct shapes -- accompanied by dusk and shadows -- are potentially beautiful. Landlady wrote: Can we say, likewise, that when someone says that something is beautiful he is (technically) mistaken? I wouldn't deem an opinion on beauty to be "mistaken," I'd rather say "insensitive" or "lacking." Furthermore, it is appalling to read through the majority of answers in this thread; silence is preferable to tautological relativism.
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

Willowz
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Posted 10/04/08 - 08:16 AM:	#34
This can be also described mathematically[though not all agree with it]. The late Professor Birkhoff of Harvard gave x=z/y as the formula for aesthetic measure. Or M=O/C, where O represents the "order" of the aesthetic object, C complexity, and M measure. A triangle has more appeal than a polygon. When we were young most things were beautiful to us, new tastes [stimulation], new sceneries[stimulation], new sounds... When someone grows older he doesn't see the beauty in those thing that once gave him pleasure, true?
A philosopher could be compared to an idling car with it's engine on, air condition on but not taking the driver to any destination. I went to sleep hungry and woke up full.

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 10/05/08 - 05:46 PM:	#35
Willowz wrote: This can be also described mathematically[though not all agree with it]. The late Professor Birkhoff of Harvard gave x=z/y as the formula for aesthetic measure. An excellent point -- and reference. Willowz wrote: When someone grows older he doesn't see the beauty in those thing that once gave him pleasure, true? Yes. The eternal battle of stimulus vs. boredom ...
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

enkidu
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Posted 10/06/08 - 06:10 PM:	#36
Willowz wrote: When someone grows older he doesn't see the beauty in those thing that once gave him pleasure, true? Yes, but, contrary to Dr. Tyko Glas, I don't think newness is what is at work here. I think that when one grows older, he indeed discerns beauty in different things. I don't think "beauty" should be considered in an absolute sense, it's only a concept, and as such, it is relative to the whole conceptual world of the individual. With this one evolving, the concept of beauty also evolves. Birkhoff's point is interesting but more as a starting point than as an absolute definition of beauty. The two variables O and C are also liable to be measured, there are various level of orders and various level of complexities, both may actually be related, at least partially (they may not be completely independent variables). But more importantly, Birkhoff definition may actually be false outside of a classical western artistic paradigm (even though this paradigm can be extented to a large part of contemporary art including non-figurative one). But can't we conceive beauty in uncertainties, uncontrolled chaos, obvious disorder?
Tight toy night, streets were so bright. The world looked so thin and between my bones and skin there stood another person who was a little surprised to be face to face with a world so alive. I fell. (Tom Verlaine)

TheThoughtfulOne
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Posted 05/31/09 - 05:24 PM:	#37
Beauty in the viewing aspect is something you see that causes awe in you and makes you feel good about seeing and moves you greatly.
I am what I am, but what am I? - Me

Caldwell
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Posted 06/01/09 - 12:16 AM:	#38
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Yes. The eternal battle of stimulus vs. boredom ... TheThoughtfulOne wrote: Beauty in the viewing aspect is something you see that causes awe in you and makes you feel good about seeing and moves you greatly. Both express the same thought.
Freak

loveofsophia
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Posted 06/01/09 - 08:48 AM:	#39
Loved this thread. I liked the biological component because of the idea of stimulation with regards to touch, sight, mental activity, sound, etc (the corresponding positive reaction we can have relating to those stimuli), this break down to, interesting, stimulating, positive, harmonious, etc. I found this narrowed my focus of beauty to the most significant aspect of beautiful: positive stimulation/relation. I liked the objective/subjective consideration. The relationship between object and subject being the domain of beauty (my opinion). Given I have an eye on Buddhism lately, it made me consider Buddhism (the non-metaphysical aspects) as a practice in bringing all experiences into the domain of positive stimulation/experience. Commonly negative experiences (those we push away) are engaged in such a way as to inform and be related to in a constructive way (learned from). The beautiful or positive experiences (given the nature of change) move out of the negative of clinging-stage (our grief at their leaving). They move away from considering the beautiful as within the mistaken notion of them being an isolated and singular event (for they are dependent on many things in the past and will become many things in the future). Relating to the beautiful in such a way that recognizes its transience is useful. For in any event of the beautiful one is made aware of its preciousness in that it leaves and any experience of a negative kind is (by being present to it and not running away) lends itself toward learning, compassion, and understanding. This, also, leads to good things. Existence entire is seen holistically, which relates to a number of conversations on the holistic nature of beauty had by a number of other members. Thanks. Edited by loveofsophia on 06/01/09 - 10:46 AM
It is amazing how susceptible to lies we are when young. I believe people are still far more susceptible to lies as adults than they would like. Balancing what could be, our imaginings, with what we know, this is a delicate act of mind.

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