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Ayahuasca and Porous Being
Disenchantment, Phenomenology and Psychedelics

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Ayahuasca and Porous Being

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/17/09 - 04:17 PM:
Subject: Ayahuasca and Porous Being

Attached is a paper i wrote this semester for an anthropology subject, mind you, the paper is more sociological and philosophical than anthropological.
Below is an abstract. The paper is 7000 words, if you want to comment please have the decency of reading the whole article.

Critcism is preferred.

Regards,
smiling face

Ayahuasca and Porous Being.

Abstract - Max Weber and Charles Taylor follow a line of thought which suggests that the modern West
is 'disenchanted' by a crisis of meaning. A historical emergence of scientific rationalism and
hyper-disengaged reasoning in 16th century Europe radically transformed how Western
individuals experience the world. By mapping out the shift from a pre-modern to modern
ethos and introducing a phenomenological approach by Taylor the contemporary Western
individual is shown to be troubled by instrumental modes of being-in-the-world. This
contemporary malaise is thought to deny individuals from a sort of 'fuller' experience of
themselves and the world. Whereas Taylor suggests a theistic approach for delivering this
'fullness', I suggest that a profound experience emerging out of an indigenous Amazonian tea
can support both theistic and non-theistic approaches to enchanting the contemporary age.

Edited by Ineffable Ant on 07/17/09 - 04:55 PM

Attached Files:

Ayahuasca and Porous Being.pdf
(50 KB, 11 downloads)

Wonderdog
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Posted 07/18/09 - 09:28 AM:	#2
An interesting paper. The initial problem with the "disenchantment" thesis is the question of to what degree it is actually empirically correct to characterise the modern world in this way. It sometimes seems to me that the degree to which we are "rationalised" is over-stated; how many people work for the love of the work rather than the love of money? How many people choose their partner on the basis of 'rational' principles? Although tainted by rationalism, art, literature and music all have their basis in a meaningful human engagement with the world, and such cultural products bring meaning to the lives of countless numbers of people; Weber's "iron cage of rationality" does not encompass everything, or even the majority of things. There are, of course, important parts of our lives which simply cannot be subject to rational criteria of action. You say that "Science has great trouble quantifying the qualitative elements of being human, or for that matter, in making quality decisions for human destiny", yet such decisions are made, and they are made on the basis of values and beliefs about what is right and good, so "non-rational" thinking plays a crucial role here. Science's inability to comprehend qualitative elements of human existence is one thing which secures them from the intrusion of science. It is also questionable as to whether science is capable of "disengaged reasoning and critical reflection". It is, after all, only a method employed by beings that are not always 'rational' creatures. You suggest that the decline of religion left people: "rootless regarding fundamental questions in life, such as ‘what is the point of life’, ‘why am I alive?’,and ‘what should I live for?’." and "Without obligatory standards, it appears that ethical ideals and notions of ethical responsibility become fluid and at risk of marginalisation." From my perspective, the loss of these values can be a good thing. It might be a better world if people spent a little more of their time pondering ‘what is the point of life’ and deciding for themselves, rather than being subject to the "obligatory standards" imposed upon them by religion, the state, or anyone else. Bear in mind that some people do terrible things in the name of an enchanted 'higher power' that such external authorities claim to represent. In this respect I welcome rationalisation. The loss of these standards is not a criticism of the rationalisation process as such, but of people's failure to create meaning for themselves. It could be argued that perhaps many people aren't capable of thinking for themselves and need these "obligatory standards" imposed upon them, but I would not wish to endorse such a view. It is important to bear in mind that although the "pre-modern self is thought to inhabit an enchanted world full of meaning", they also inhabited a world full of disease, poverty, starvation, injustice, exploitation and suffering the likes of which few people in the West are familiar with. It might be that only in the rationalised West where so many people are free from those threats, that is it possible to engage in “re-invigorating meaning and engaging individuals with their world in deeper modes of self discovery and appreciation”. The use of drugs to achieve deeper understanding of the self is an interesting idea, this is reminiscent of the discovery and popularisation of LSD. Although touted forty years ago as a potential tool for self-exploration, it has instead become another intoxicating drug for people to escape from this world into blissful nothingness. The "overall enhancement of meaningfulness" experienced by psychedelic drug users is often not real; it is in a sense a hallucination brought on by the drug. This is why when the drug wears off it is often difficult to recall what it was that seemed so meaningful when they were high. Although some may learn to distinguish these ‘false revelations’, many will not. If the modern self is 'hyper-disengaged', don't psychedelic drugs by definition disengage people from the world? I feel there might be some kind of contradiction in trying to attain a "‘fuller’ state of being-in-the-world" by retreating from the world into a drug experience. Although you do say that it might take a long time and effort to properly appreciate the benefits of ayahuasca, it does seem to me that drugs can be seen as a shortcut to self-realisation, a task that necessarily takes a lifetime and should be done through engaging with the world. There are, of course, important parts of our lives which simply cannot be subject to rational criteria of action. You say that "Science has great trouble quantifying the qualitative elements of being human, or for that matter, in making quality decisions for human destiny", yet such decisions are made, and they are made on the basis of values and beliefs about what is right and good, so "non-rational" thinking plays a crucial role here. Science's inability to comprehend qualitative elements of human existence is one thing which secures them from the intrusion of science. It is also questionable as to whether science is capable of "disengaged reasoning and critical reflection". It is, after all, only a method employed by beings that are not always 'rational' creatures. You suggest that the decline of religion left people: "rootless regarding fundamental questions in life, such as ‘what is the point of life’, ‘why am I alive?’,and ‘what should I live for?’." and "Without obligatory standards, it appears that ethical ideals and notions of ethical responsibility become fluid and at risk of marginalisation." From my perspective, the loss of these values can be a good thing. It might be a better world if people spent a little more of their time pondering ‘what is the point of life’ and deciding for themselves, rather than being subject to the "obligatory standards" imposed upon them by religion, the state, or anyone else. Bear in mind that some people do terrible things in the name of an enchanted 'higher power' that such external authorities claim to represent. In this respect I welcome rationalisation. The loss of these standards is not a criticism of the rationalisation process as such, but of people's failure to create meaning for themselves. It could be argued that perhaps many people aren't capable of thinking for themselves and need these "obligatory standards" imposed upon them, but I would not wish to endorse such a view. It is important to bear in mind that although the "pre-modern self is thought to inhabit an enchanted world full of meaning", they also inhabited a world full of disease, poverty, starvation, injustice, exploitation and suffering the likes of which few people in the West are familiar with. It might be that only in the rationalised West where so many people are free from those threats, that is it possible to engage in “re-invigorating meaning and engaging individuals with their world in deeper modes of self discovery and appreciation”. The use of drugs to achieve deeper understanding of the self is an interesting idea, this is reminiscent of the discovery and popularisation of LSD. Although touted forty years ago as a potential tool for self-exploration, it has instead become another intoxicating drug for people to escape from this world into blissful nothingness. The "overall enhancement of meaningfulness" experienced by psychedelic drug users is often not real; it is in a sense a hallucination brought on by the drug. This is why when the drug wears off it is often difficult to recall what it was that seemed so meaningful when they were high. Although some may learn to distinguish these ‘false revelations’, many will not. If the modern self is 'hyper-disengaged', don't psychedelic drugs by definition disengage people from the world? I feel there might be some kind of contradiction in trying to attain a "‘fuller’ state of being-in-the-world" by retreating from the world into a drug experience. Although you do say that it might take a long time and effort to properly appreciate the benefits of ayahuasca, it does seem to me that drugs can be seen as a shortcut to self-realisation, a task that necessarily takes a lifetime and should be done through engaging with the world.

Hanover
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Posted 07/18/09 - 11:01 AM:	#3
Ineffable Ant wrote: Whereas Taylor suggests a theistic approach for delivering this 'fullness', I suggest that a profound experience emerging out of an indigenous Amazonian tea can support both theistic and non-theistic approaches to enchanting the contemporary age. Criticism you want, criticism you'll get. It seems that Taylor has identified a problem with Western fulfillment, which may or may not be true, but it seems he makes as convincing an argument as any. His response is reasonable, suggesting that a belief in a higher power will enrich an otherwise scientifically grounded and necessarily mundane existence. Your response, on the other hand, is, well, silly. The answer to life's riddles do not lie at the bottom of a cup of tea. You're peddling the Magic Elixer of Meaning from the back of your wagon, and I'm not buying.
"Nothing is impossible for the man who will not listen to reason." John Belushi, "Animal House" "I have opinions of my own --strong opinions-- but I don't always agree with them." G.W. Bush

180 Proof
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Posted 07/18/09 - 11:55 AM:	#4
Hanover wrote: Ineffable Ant wrote: Whereas Taylor suggests a theistic approach for delivering this 'fullness', I suggest that a profound experience emerging out of an indigenous Amazonian tea can support both theistic and non-theistic approaches to enchanting the contemporary age. Criticism you want, criticism you'll get. It seems that Taylor has identified a problem with Western fulfillment, which may or may not be true, but it seems he makes as convincing an argument as any. His response is reasonable, suggesting that a belief in a higher power will enrich an otherwise scientifically grounded and necessarily mundane existence. Your response, on the other hand, is, well, silly. The answer to life's riddles do not lie at the bottom of a cup of tea. You're peddling the Magic Elixer of Meaning from the back of your wagon, and I'm not buying. Burrrrrrn.
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

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Posted 07/18/09 - 01:08 PM:	#5
Richard Tarnas argues the same thing, a troubling difference between a premodern and contemporary ontology. Man has shifted from being at One with the world with being the lonely insignificant one in the world (who is yet globally connected through technologies). There is a primal nostalgia lurking in some of us, just because we 'got high' and remember 'getting high.' Perhaps it frames what we have experienced but can't have and so creates a narrative of mild suffering of desire out of this ongoing lack of fulfillment. The memory of seeing 'God', or illusion of loving so intensely, fully and without nagging constraints of law and social customs, preys on us. Sometimes I feel willing to blow myself up with plastic explosives just to get back there.
Pseudophilosophy is a blessed art not to be taken seriously but to be enjoyed deeply.

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/18/09 - 03:11 PM:	#6
Thanks for the criticism, there are a lot of thoughts here which I really appreciate. Especially, Wonderdog, you've given more in depth feedback than my supervisor, cheers I feel that maybe I took rationality too far, well I think Weber did also. Like you said not everything is in his 'iron cage'. Humans have a propensity to enjoy their activities as 'ends' in themselves, like the meaning some people get from their 'calling' in life, as Wonderdog stated. I still feel that a lot people in the contemporary West are herded around by hyper-rationality to the point of despair and anxiety. However, I do acknowledge the value of rationality, I mean, learning to become more and more rational has opened up vistas of potential for my life, it's an amazing method for passion, I guess some people just take rationality as the passion and I feel it can't deliver a meaningful life. It can simply assist. Maybe this idea goes without saying. You say that "Science has great trouble quantifying the qualitative elements of being human, or for that matter, in making quality decisions for human destiny", yet such decisions are made, and they are made on the basis of values and beliefs about what is right and good, so "non-rational" thinking plays a crucial role here." (Wonderdog) I'm still under the impression that when values and beliefs are chosen to be right and good that it is not a product of rational thought. I feel that valuing rationality is ultimately non-rational. You might be able to rationalise values and beliefs in retrospect however the act of valuing, I would say, is based on feeling. Hanover and Proof, thanks for offering your opinions but you haven;t given me any examples why you came to the conclusions you did. I feel that probably, a)you both only read the abstract and didn't ponder my arguments and examples, and/or b) this discussion is more about ego, 'I'm right, your wrong', than discussion, sharing and learning. Nihilistic, thanks for the Tarnas reference. I don't think that logic can ultimately convince you of why you should value certain drugs, I never used to and I argued similar ideas as all of you. However, then I had some really deep experiences working with these plants and they really helped me understand myself, my philosophies, my passions etc. in a profound way. I guess to try and describe it, they helped me really 'feel' the ideas, to fuse the relationship between Concept and feeling. Maybe understand 'feeling' in this sense as something like non-reflective understanding, embodiment to use Merleau-Ponty's notion. So, I understand that all of you strongly do not value these substances in the way which I do. I'm having a discussion in another thread about this, I've decided to copy and paste the argument below to offer you a perspective into my world. Thanks for the criticism, I honestly didn't expect such logical dexterity and insight, especially from Wonderdog, many thanks You are all obviously really bright and my appreciation floods out to you. The topic is called Spiritual Progress Through drugs. It is quite long, I hope you take the time to appreciate my arguments in depth. The second posting of mine included, as the insight shifts dramatically towards the personal. Edited by unenlightened on 07/18/09 - 04:14 PM. Reason: capitals, etc.

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/18/09 - 03:15 PM:	#7
Psychedelics, entheogens, hallucinogens, psychoactives, sacraments, whatever you want to call them, are strongly misunderstood by the Western public at large. This is due to a mammoth complexity of reasons, one notable historical influence comes for the demonisation of 'other' religious practices by the Catholic Inquisition, the notorious Sacred and Profane wars of the last thousand years. This Includes the burning of European herbalists or witches and the destruction of myriad indigenous practices under European imperialism, most notably in the Americas. A more recent influence of this sacred and profane war can been acknowledged by tracing the development of LSD from its emergence in 1943 and Hoffman's serendipitous bike ride. Playing around with ergot a leading (Swiss?, at least German speaking) scientist discovered lysergic acid and sparked a fire which began to ignite interests especially throughout psychology departments and governments around the world. In the 1950's and 1960s LSD was a promising new horizon for physiological research and some psychologists such as Stanslav Groff produced amazing studies pertaining to mental health and spiritual ideations. I guess we can't blame Leary completely for what happened with LSD towards the late 1960s when some of the high profile researchers began advocating these profound substances to the public, which was to much of the disgust of a lot of the intellectual and spiritual world. Leary understood the insightful and profound qualities of these substances and tried to radically change society with them. Western culture in the early 1960s was really really repressed, I mean we still are but back then black people were treated practically as animals and homosexuals were not legally allowed to exist, amongst many other things. Some argue that the culture was not publicly ready for such a shift. Entheogens offer people deep insight into their being, including values and beliefs, and from this insight a lot of the time people change their ways in life, for example, they might deeply feel that they don't value going to the Vietnam war, or consuming rubbish commodities and beliefs which suffocate life, love, or openness, or something like that. You can see why the establishment freaked out when Tim Leary got on his high horse and said something like 'society has lied to you, this ancient-style technology (acid) can help you understand yourself and the world better', leading you away from the corrupt and manipulative tendencies of the establishment. 1973 (I think) Nixon freaked out as moral panic began to challenge a lot of the repressive structures governing the culture, along with a lot of people taking these substances in uneducated and dangerous ways. The establishment was so scared of societie's values and beliefs shifting that not only did it make these sacred sacraments, or technologies, illegal to consume, they made it illegal to study for anyone, including responsible scientists. It has only been in the last 5 or so years that this intellectual repression has begun to wane. For a great recent study see John Hopkins University's 2006 experiments with pscilocybin mushrooms (indole-hallucinogen quite similar to LSD)check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7yKpvBQhTw for CNN report. The current misconception of psychedelic drugs is ultimately the result of the historical politics of religion, however, with the state and economies - and the shallow values and beliefs which support a strong economy - have become the new 'religion' in the contemporary secular West. There are many arguments to offer people who have been repressed from such realities, however I will finish with just one. DMT or NN-dimethyltryptamine is one of the most powerful indole-halluconigens (similar to LSD) known to humans. It has been used for thousands of years by around 60 Amazonian cultures (see Luna 1984, Naranjo 1979, 1986) in a tea called Ayahuasca - 'vine of the soul'. Now there are so many interesting dimensions to ayahuasca, and DMT, but I think this one is rather curious. DMT or NN-dimethyltryptamine is endogenous to the human body, that means it exists 'naturally' in every human body, well, in small amounts in the brain to be more specific. This includes the brain of your grandmother and your little nephew. NN-dimethyltryptamine is really similar to 5-hydroxitryptamine, otherwise known as seratonin, the most common neurotransmitter in the human brain. Ok, so get this, when you take DMT from a plant and put it into your stomach then let it go through your blood to your brain you have profound experiences which at the most resemble classic mystical experiences and at the least can offer you deep insight into yourself and the world which you are immersed in, AS LONG, as you have some very very basic instructions from someone who genuinly knows a little about this stuff. One last comment, DMT exists throughout the natural world in so many plants and animals, the psychologist Rick Strassman said something like, its getting to the point where its easy to name the plants which don't contain DMT than those which do. I live in Australia and every single acacia wattle, all 1200+ species (including the national emblem) contain some traces of this profound substance. Just to sneak in another simple idea, traditionally ayahuasca (containing DMT) is understood by its local practicioners as being something like a medicine, sacrament and/or plant teacher. To say that these substances are not REALLY important fields of human research and experience is to neglect some basic qualities of what it means to be alive and human. I just wrote a paper on Ayahuasca, showing it as a tool for enchanment, playing on the sociologist Max Weber and the philosopher Charles Taylor, along with a host of psychedelic researchers. Check it out if you are interested in what I've said in this post. http://forums.philosophyforums.com/threads/ayahua... Cheers, Edited by unenlightened on 07/18/09 - 04:30 PM. Reason: capitals, html.

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/18/09 - 03:16 PM:	#8
templetonesquire wrote: I have tried your mysticality potion, and honestly I'd like my mysticism back, because it is a jip. No one doubts that DMT or ayahuasca can produce a departure from reality, going to sleep and dreaming is pretty much the same thing. Yet guess what, everyone dreams, and we're all still flunked up. These things only teach you as far as providing a giant jumble of unrelated symbols at a rapid pace, it's like trying to learn by watching white noise on the TV. Now if you're an inquisitive chap, staring at white noise may allow you to see things that are interesting and not there, but for the majority of people, it's just white noise. I'd much rather watch something else on TV mind you, with a decent plot and thought provoking theme. And as far as persecuting people for taking drugs, that's just stupid, if anything the government should be congratulating people for drugging up because nothing keeps them more misunderstood and misled. Edited by unenlightened on 07/18/09 - 04:32 PM. Reason: html

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/18/09 - 03:22 PM:	#9
The 'potion' isn't mine, it belongs to the earth and is everyones birth right. By using the term 'potion' you are reinforcing my original idea that contemporary Western thought is shaped by medieval Catholic dogma. There are so many profound insights coming out of entheogenic experiences. They offer huge uncharted realms for most Western intellectuals, those who haven't experienced them properly and those who work with them diligently. A lot of people smoke DMT in inappropriate contexts with inappropriate mindsets going into the experience from a perspective so paralysed by their own repressive world view that nothing insightful emerges. An amazing quality of ayahuasca is its ability to reflect the entire being of the participating subject. Therefore, if the subject has a staunch negative stance towards ayahuasca, the experience will not open up. There is a famous instruction when going into these spaces known as 'just let go'. This idea is really complex, and can be abstracted as something like, dissolve fearful conceptions and trust yourself and also the plant you are coming into a symbiosis with. I smoked DMT 15+ times before anything really profound emerged, I mean the first 15 were increadiby beautiful, warm, loving, and pleasurable also. When I began working with aya I came to realize that I am a little fish in a big ocean when it comes to these realms. They are so intricate, mysterious and insightful. Working with these type of plants is like the fostering of any skill in life. You can't dance before you learn to walk. Just like you can't expect to read and understand Derrida when you have just learnt to speak english, or worse, if you haven;t even learnt english, but you speak latin and you try and read Derrida, some words will make sense but the amazing depth of his ideas, like 'deconstructionism', would utlimately look something like a 'fuzzy television screen'. There is so much misinformation about entheogens, a lot of people are introduced to them in a sort of hedonistic, or negative and reductive format. If you have a source of knowledge and a source of plants (I would recomend growing your own) and an open mind these things can assist you is so many complex ways. They are like tools for such things as better physical and mental health, intellectualization and self-understanding. A common mistake is sometimes people take the tools to be the thing the tools might build. Enthegens are not the divine, or the answer, or anything like that. They can create an amazing context for exploring your understanding of the divine, or what truth means to you. The more philosophical oriented generally experience more metaphysical type ideations. These amazing human allies grow and flower in the natural world, you know, the world where we get the food to walk and talk, the water to live and swim in and so forth. They are your birth right as I said. Simply approach them with strict seriousness and do a lot of study and preparation before working with them. To use your TV analogy Templeton, it seems that you were not directing the experience towards an insightful ' TV program'. DMT works primarily on intent, if you intend chaos it will more than likely bring it to you. As I said, some people take DMT as the TV programs, rather it is an advanced method for tuning into myriad 'TV programs' given the 'watcher' is open, prepared and willing to embody discipline and hardwork. Its not easy confronting some of these 'TV programs', some which display your personal secrets and deep dark patterns of thinking an behaviour you have lurking in your unconscious. You don;t need entheogens to help heal these type of pathologies however they are by far the best method I have ever come across and I am very grateful for them, and herbs in general, being in my life. If anyone is serious about these things, read a few books, there are so many out there, simply choose those published by Oxford, Cambrige, Routledge etc. Become confident with yourself and the plants then peak behind the curtian into the inspiring, familiar world which you are immersed in. I would recommened starting with LSD or mushrooms, they offer 3-4 hour shrooms, and 4-5 hour (roughly) LDS, experiences which gives you a lot of time to work with yourself. A lot of my friends, myself included, prefer taking them in silent darkness, not socially, publically, or anything like this. All you need is personal strength and trust - within yourself. Build the trust with books and discussions with people, if you are new to this then the dis-trust is probably really deep from the type of socially repressive tendencies i mentioned earlier. It's interesting you say that dream consciousness is the same as the awareness DMT gives you Templeton. I've heard some amazonian shamans say that if they could control their dreams better there would be no need for ayahuasca. I mean the experience of life is the context for our being-in-the-world, to borrow Heideggers terminology, yeah. Everything exists through different aspects of being, whether dreams, memories, hopes, perception, intersubjective relationships, inter-plant/human relationships etc. There might be particular elements to our experience, however they are all apart of the one experience, lets call it being . Its natural that the major aspects of being intermingle in complex and obvious way, ie, dream conciousness resembling awake consciousness and plant inspired consciousess. I don't think that entheogens can heal or teach anyone anything major unless they want to be healed or to learn things. Edited by unenlightened on 07/18/09 - 04:43 PM. Reason: ditto

Ineffable Ant
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Posted 07/18/09 - 03:22 PM:	#10
Hey Templeton, if you believe that these things are such a jip. What do you personally feel and think about this study? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7yKpvBQhTw I'm really curious about your ideas, I dont think I've found reality or anything like that. I just feel that I've found some things which have had dramatically positve effects on my life, and I feel given the right methods others could benefit as much, if not more, than myself and my friends have. Edited by unenlightened on 07/18/09 - 04:44 PM. Reason: ditto

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