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As if truth requires faith ...
How true is the scriptural source of your faith?
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Apathy Kills
Decaying Organic Matter  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: May 07, 2007 Location: United States, MIDWEST Total Topics: 30 Total Posts: 496 |
 #31
oag wrote: Germs being the cause of all illness is an example of modern ignorance of biology. Huh?  Elaborate please? "Belief in God, or in many gods, prevented the free development of moral reasoning. Disbelief in God, openly admitted by a majority, is a recent event, not yet completed. Because this event is so recent, Non-Religious Ethics is at a very early stage. We cannot yet predict whether, as in Mathematics, we will all reach agreement. Since we cannot know how Ethics will develop, it is not irrational to have high hopes." - Derek Parfit |
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oag
banned  Usergroup: Members Joined: Jun 13, 2009 Total Topics: 2 Total Posts: 555 |
#32
Apathy Kills wrote: Is mental illness always caused by germs? Is cancer? Diabetes?Huh? Elaborate please? |
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180 Proof
kynic  Usergroup: Sponsors Joined: Apr 27, 2003 Location: reason's raggedy edge ... Total Topics: 108 Total Posts: 5931 |
#33
dclements wrote: If your 'truth'/facts are only conditionally true how do you rule out the possibility that other 'truth'/facts that you are unaware of makes your argument either wrong or moot? Simple, I don't. As I've pointed out already, (my) truths are conditional, or contingent; or in other words, I presume that all claims are fallible & revisable/refutable upon new evidence. You are trying to claim that your views requires no faith because they are true and are back by proven facts ... Strawman. ... yet you never bother to question whether believing your position is true (while there is not enough evidence to guarantee this ) is just another form of faith. Equivocating non sequitur. In the end you are just avoiding having faith in God by having faith in something else. Again, dclements, more equivocating nonsense on your part. Only the unreal, or imaginary, requires "faith". Otherwise, knowledge of that which is suffices. rigelrover wrote: Do you not see the contradiction here? Apparently not. oag wrote: The cause and effect are going to have the same characteristics. Natural causes cannot produce supernatural effects and vice versa Well then your "metaphysics" precludes the possibility of the world being the natural effect (i.e. "creation") of a "supernatural" cause (e.g. "creator"). Okay, but you're right but for the wrong (i.e. incoherent) reasons. You pick a creation story that doesn't fit with scientific data and then declare that scientific data does not support that creation story. If you weren't in such a hurry to nitpick in lieu of having any serious objections then you'd have noticed that the OP specifically refers to the JCI traditions' respective scriptures all of which are rooted in the Genesis "creation myths". You're missing the point, oag. I asked JCI believers who believed that some aspect (or the entirety) of their scriptures were literally true to explain why "faith" in them is also needed. If you don't believe in the literal truth of the "creation myths" at issue, and/or if you're not even a JCI believer, then propose another "faith-based" scriptural "story of creation" that you believe is literally true and explain why "faith" in its veracity isn't redundant. Otherwise, go pick someone else's nits. As for possibility, I don't have to imply it. Anything is possible... Res ipsa loquitur.  Who let another damn troll in here?! Edited by 180 Proof on Aug 26, 2009 - 2:36 PM. Reason: No mas ... the where of space? the when of time? the edge of an unbounded surface? the cause of causality? willing separate from acting? disembodied personality? symphony without orchestra? ideal reality? real concepts? 'higher truth' via contradiction? non-propositional truths? context-free questions? unconditional objects? maps which transcend their terrain? the truth of logic? facts indistinguishable from fictions? answering questions with mysteries? anthropomorphic unknowns? ... o_O only placebos require 'faith'. THINKING won't kill you, but it might make you stronger! |
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ManiacJack
banned  Usergroup: Members Joined: May 29, 2008 Location: Statosphere, Earth Total Topics: 78 Total Posts: 1052 |
#34
Well, the Tractatus Logico-Philosophious is literally 100% true. Irony is the only truth there is. And that is exactly how the Tractatus ends, with a giant twist of irony. The good ol' N(E-bar) procession. If that is the case, I assume that other Holy Books must be in a similar vein: Or, to bring up Wittgenstein again, 'Christianity is not a doctrine but something that happens in your life.' That is a chunk of irony as well. Space Oil Peaked. Will Smuggle Priceless Astral Goods for Ultimate Price. |
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