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Art in Utter Decline

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Art in Utter Decline

180 Proof
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Posted 04/18/09 - 08:41 AM:	#41
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Cable TV (almost 100% reruns), Hollywood remakes, sampling of music as "style" ... I could go on and on. Copycat art; eclectic copy-pasting; reduxing & remastering; revision ... all relating to a state of perpetual nostalgia. Mass-produced merchandise lacks creators. Most bands have songwriters and "ghost musicians" as every TV show has a collection of writers who steal/borrow/copy from each other, always referring to a "master plot" from an older version of a show/series. What keeps them all in business is the hegemonic provider reshaping its products for the returning consumer. ... courtesy of Kurt Cobain, "Territorial Pissings" on Nevermind (1991) -- parodying John Lennon's message to "smile on your brother" -- more nostalgia ... Vintage Adorno. My elitist comrade -- I love it!
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

nomadx
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Posted 04/18/09 - 10:36 AM:	#42
180 Proof wrote: Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Cable TV (almost 100% reruns), Hollywood remakes, sampling of music as \"style\" ... I could go on and on. Copycat art; eclectic copy-pasting; reduxing & remastering; revision ... all relating to a state of perpetual nostalgia. Mass-produced merchandise lacks creators. Most bands have songwriters and \"ghost musicians\" as every TV show has a collection of writers who steal/borrow/copy from each other, always referring to a \"master plot\" from an older version of a show/series. What keeps them all in business is the hegemonic provider reshaping its products for the returning consumer. ... courtesy of Kurt Cobain, \"Territorial Pissings\" on Nevermind (1991) -- parodying John Lennon\'s message to \"smile on your brother\" -- more nostalgia ... Vintage Adorno. My elitist comrade -- I love it! No Adorno at least had something interesting to say.
What is a box? Is the text in the box separate from the text outside the box? How is it linked? What is the border, the margin or frame? Is it inside or outside the box? And why do we talk of a box, say, rather than a square or oblong, a coffin or crypt? What are we trying to hide? Or what is hereby hiding? 'What is a box?' (The Truth in Painting: 229)

StaticAge
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Posted 04/18/09 - 01:18 PM:	#43
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Cable TV (almost 100% reruns), Hollywood remakes, sampling of music as "style" ... I could go on and on. Copycat art; eclectic copy-pasting; reduxing & remastering; revision ... all relating to a state of perpetual nostalgia. Mass-produced merchandise lacks creators. Most bands have songwriters and "ghost musicians" as every TV show has a collection of writers who steal/borrow/copy from each other, always referring to a "master plot" from an older version of a show/series. What keeps them all in business is the hegemonic provider reshaping its products for the returning consumer. That is how is has always been. How many classical paintings had the same mythical stories behind the various renderings of similar persons and themes and styles, assembled by guilds of underworkers and apprentices who produced the pieces the master would stamp with his signature like the product of any modern corporation? Wrong. A theory -- in the sense of a construct -- is a set of statements devised to explain a group of phenomena. The initial outline relates to an abstract level. Pulling it down to the surface won't change the presets. The difference between a law and a theory in science is that a theory is valid until disproved and a law describes something, like Newton's theory of gravity, which it correctly describes, but may not give a reason for the behavior. All theories are considered true until they are disproved, that is just the way things go. ... courtesy of Kurt Cobain, "Territorial Pissings" on Nevermind (1991) -- parodying John Lennon's message to "smile on your brother" -- more nostalgia ... Nostalgia, perhaps, but I was thinking more along the lines of Joseph Heller. And the parody was of the Youngbloods, not John Lennon.
"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." -Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Overpower, overcome." -The Cro-Mags

Makarismos
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Posted 04/19/09 - 05:38 AM:	#44
It strikes me that talk of art in decline, misses the point: art has changed rather dramatically from what it once was, and what we now consider "art", was not considered so in times past. We have the problem that classical resonance art, which some might want to use as a bench mark for all art, was itself commissioned by rich patrons, and was not considered in the same manner by its creators as works by Picasso. The term "art" is rather hard to pin down to a particular thing. To say "art is in decline", or "art is of a lesser kind today than it was once", implies that by this symbol of a thing "art", we perceive that older specimens are greater, more perfect, more inspired. So this first problem of ambiguity, is compounded by a second problem of nostalgia. It is a fact that we can look back, and judge with hindsight a pivotal piece of art. We can see that it has been appreciated for many years, and that it has influenced other artists to produce similar works. When we look at present day "art", we do not, and can not say the same thing. It is easy to see how we might, believe that past artists were greater because of this past appreciation and influence: it is obvious how this is a mistaken belief. Post-modernity has been a shaping factor in art and popular culture, to an extreme by which it has transformed both. In the modern world, an artefact is not a work of art on its own, but rather the significance and the placement of that artefact. It may be that this "artefact", is itself nothing but placement and significance: the art of the publicist, the shock comic, or the news journalist are of this rather intangible type. To end as I have began: To say that art is not what it once was is correct, but to say that it is less, is to entirely miss the point of what art is. Art, if anything, is an expression, a craft, it is not static. If artists were still painting plaster, and aspiring to perhaps one day match past greats like Raphael or Michelangelo, then truly art would not just have declined, it would have died.

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 04/19/09 - 06:11 PM:	#45
180 Proof Vintage Adorno. My elitist comrade -- I love it! Спасибо большой, товарищ! The Politburo extends its gratitude and wishes you all luck on your Sisyphean task to educate and instruct the incorrigible Lumpenproletariat. Evoe! StaticAge That is how it has always been. That is the second time you state this. I repeat: how would we know? How many classical paintings had the same mythical stories behind the various renderings of similar persons and themes and styles, assembled by guilds of underworkers and apprentices who produced the pieces the master would stamp with his signature like the product of any modern corporation? You suddenly equate artist with artisan and corporation with guild? As there couldn't be mass production (nor mass consumption) before the industrialization of Europe, I can only view this as an occasion of wishful thinking on your behalf (the urge to see a purpose in all human actions). All theories are considered true until they are disproved ... You will also have to take the experimental setting into account. Nostalgia, perhaps, but I was thinking more along the lines of Joseph Heller. Communication by way of intertextuality ... Okay, so if you recognize postmodern phenomena (and all its rejections of modernity, originality, metanarratives, ideology, etc.), then what are you arguing? If art was formerly worshiped, but was "taken down" and dissected -- "getting off its high horses," as you would say -- then doesn't that denote a decline? (And don't be lead to think this indicates "good," "bad" or other subjective evaluations; I am pointing to the concept and its properties as such.) Makarismos It strikes me that talk of art in decline, misses the point: art has changed rather dramatically from what it once was ... Isn't it a crisis of concept when it no longer relates to its origin? To say "art is in decline", or "art is of a lesser kind today than it was once", implies that by this symbol of a thing "art", we perceive that older specimens are greater, more perfect, more inspired. Non sequitur ... It is easy to see how we might, believe that past artists were greater because of this past appreciation and influence: it is obvious how this is a mistaken belief. Are you suggesting a linear succession of historical events, all pointing to the developmental level we have today? Looking at art (in the broad, inclusive sense) you will see that there are "bursts" of creation, in what appears to be -- metaphorically speaking -- a pulsation of acclivity and decline, mirroring various epochs of sociopolitical and technological advancements. My suggestion is the latter, that the passing of modernity to postmodernity reflects the seasonal passage of "fall" to "winter." Meanwhile, we live on the garbage heap of Enlightenment leftovers that have, as well, lost their inherent meaning: romanticism, capitalism (as production mode), utopianism (fascism, liberalism, socialism, humanism) ... Post-modernity has been a shaping factor in art and popular culture, to an extreme by which it has transformed both. In the modern world, an artefact is not a work of art on its own, but rather the significance and the placement of that artefact. It may be that this "artefact", is itself nothing but placement and significance: the art of the publicist, the shock comic, or the news journalist are of this rather intangible type. You are pinpointing my viewpoint. But doesn't this -- as I've posted elsewhere -- denote a crisis of concept? To say that art is not what it once was is correct, but to say that it is less, is to entirely miss the point of what art is. It could be that our view of time clashes. If you see a linear continuum and I relate to seasonal "outbursts," then our own concepts of "decline" cover very different properties; my decline reflects "winter-time" which you seem to interpret as "extinction."
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

StaticAge
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Posted 04/19/09 - 08:02 PM:	#46
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Okay, so if you recognize postmodern phenomena (and all its rejections of modernity, originality, metanarratives, ideology, etc.), then what are you arguing? If art was formerly worshiped, but was "taken down" and dissected -- "getting off its high horses," as you would say -- then doesn't that denote a decline? (And don't be lead to think this indicates "good," "bad" or other subjective evaluations; I am pointing to the concept and its properties as such.) I am arguing? Is this a debate? If I recognize postmodern phenomena does that require belief in postmodern theory? Is that even possible? I said nothing about art being worshiped, I was mainly talking about art analysis and criticism, but it doesn't matter. It's the whole art world. I could only see it being described as a "decline" IF it was ever legitimately an authority. I am a non-participating participant as far as that goes. A non-voting citizen who acts in a civil way not because I should but because its a part of my being. As far as the reasons that are supposed to ground what I do, I have no use for them, and I doubt any definitive answer is possible. I have enjoyed and prospered and created within whatever the "art world" is. I don't let it define me, I don't believe I can define it, I just enjoy the ride. If the city is burning, I will dance around the flames and play in the ashes. If its just another revolution, at least I have a chance to turn a buck doing something I love.
"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." -Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Overpower, overcome." -The Cro-Mags

180 Proof
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Posted 04/19/09 - 11:05 PM:	#47
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: 180 Proof Спасибо большой, товарищ! The Politburo extends its gratitude and wishes you all luck on your Sisyphean task to educate and instruct the incorrigible Lumpenproletariat. Evoe! (Now why'd you go & get yourself banned?!)
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

Vigotski
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Posted 05/30/09 - 09:00 AM:	#48
Art is a spiritual tool for reading (or finding) our human mind.

Vinni
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Posted 05/30/09 - 01:13 PM:	#49
Art has been in utter decline ever since Duchamp's Fountain. Andres Serrano is the artist of the future and I'm not having any of it.

richie3622
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Posted 07/14/09 - 05:03 PM:	#50
It's just like these poor saps I meet that try to tell me, "only music that displays a knowledge of music theory is truly talented." These people just - don't - get - it.

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