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Art in Utter Decline

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Art in Utter Decline

180 Proof
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Posted 04/13/09 - 12:11 AM:	#31
Perhaps the cultural & subjective needs traditionally satisfied by Art are now satisfied (or anaesthetized) by some other practice(s)? "Counterfactual dreaming" may be giving way to dreamless desire -- from neuropharmacological to computational techniques for hacking the CNS -- transforming auditors into self-excited circuits, subjects into projections. Art has long been a "human" prosthesis; now "humans" seem prosthetics of Art (ala Feuerbach's dialectic). Postmodernity is, in effect, a "modernist" mood (e.g. Dada), a May '68 hangover, that's been McLuhanized ad nauseam, and no more marks the "utter decline" of Art than it does the assent (or arrival) of post-anything. We've simply passed from the "who am I?" phase of modernity in to the "what are you?" phase ... Art now makes us, we no longer make Art. What's needed, DTG, may be an aesthetics of prosthetics. Edited by 180 Proof on 04/13/09 - 12:22 AM. Reason: Fragments, not thoughts.
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

123savethewhales
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Posted 04/13/09 - 12:25 AM:	#32
throng wrote: It is easy to see that a huge proportion of modern art is completely contrived. Art does reflect the state of society and in the western world media saturation is bamboozling people into rampant consumerizm and 'I want it now' demands. Modern artists just whack out some blatent statement containing no movements or refined sentiments. As people fall into the media delerium they are fed crap and told to like it, so if you can't sing become a rapper, if you can't paint just squirt random colour on a sheet, and if you can't act convincingly, become a TV star. Obviously there is utter decline in art. Isn't it plainly obvious? It's only obvious for those who dislike Rap, Abstract Expressionism, and TV Stars. I can't say much about TV stars since I hardly watch TV, but what makes Rap and Abstract Expressionism a "decline" rather than a simple change? What's makes a Goya painting better than a Jackson Pollock painting? What makes the Beatles better than 50Cent? If anything at least define the perimeter of what makes something better than something else.
Keep it simple.

StaticAge
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Posted 04/13/09 - 06:02 AM:	#33
I think sometimes theorists and critics take themselves too seriously and simultaneously fret over the fact that their position is an invention of modernity. After all, peoples have created aesthetically pleasing works for thousands of years without having an "art world" to operate inside of in a specialized fashion. So, if the distinctions between art and craft seem fabricated and unnecessary, artists will still have their role as producers, but the people who imagine themselves as being able to explain it all are in serious jeopardy. But a lot of postmodern analysis of art (as absorbed by art criticism) strikes me as very old world. It is more a concern that the wrong sorts of people are making it or enjoying it or that the art made is inferior to work of the past. As far as the production of art, there are still the stars and the best and brightest which culture hold up as exemplary and masterful engineers. Describing the current hegemony as the product of the "postmodern" zeitgeist might be true on some level. But whatever the current is now, there is no barometer to decry it as a "decline" simply because there is no measurement to show that the past was more true that the present, or that the past meant something different, or that a detection of a changing current today in the world is somehow more frightening than those which took place over and over again in history. 1 If your theory is true, then you have no means to talk about the present at all, because you cannot know what it was about the past that embued art with whatever it is missing today. It might be better off dropping the postmodern cliches and just talk about the current situation as best you can without all the self inflicted drama. 2 If your theory is true then you should not even be able to step outside to look upon it to correctly diagnose your culture, since art criticism is a part of the same culture. Get off the high horse and come down here with the rest of us losers or forever be unable to "get" it. I see the postmodern zeitgeist as an opportunity to work in fresh and exciting ways and not to be as tied to tradition. And maybe its not all that fresh, maybe it only feels that way because its after all, only a reconfiguration of things already done. Why should I be concerned over this? Surely the words I am typing out right now have been typed before, and they were better and sharper words that cut to the heart of the matter and lay bare something more important than what I am using them for. But why should that be upsetting to me? Why can't I just enjoy my life? Why must I take your precious theory so seriously? It is your bete noire, not mine. Giving your fear investment of my concern empowers you at my own expense. I am not sure it exists at all. It is your simulacra, not mine. You must toil through it yourself. Edited by StaticAge on 04/13/09 - 06:11 AM
"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." -Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Overpower, overcome." -The Cro-Mags

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 04/17/09 - 07:40 AM:	#34
Banno So art is supposed to "temporarily free us from the space-time cage"? Yes, consider jouissance and space-time "exorcism" as two central aspects for anyone experiencing art. throng It is easy to see that a huge proportion of modern art is completely contrived. Art does reflect the state of society and in the western world media saturation is bamboozling people into rampant consumerizm and 'I want it now' demands. Instant gratification and the nurturing of various psychopathologies (narcissism, paranoia, etc.) reshape the outline of popular demand, yet we need more criteria to draw the conclusion that art is in utter decline. You see, "trash" isn't new. It relates to the late-medieval thaw, being on the rise as a reaction to the lightening of the chokehold of Christianity (exempting Al-Andalus, where art, philosophy, education, poetry, etc. was allowed to flourish until its downfall). Transitional phases are generally horrible restarts, and our contemporary art scene is quite similar to the early Renaissance (16th century). Consider the list as a brief "grazing" of contemporary phenomena that appeared then: Trash entertainment: Rabelais' Gargantua (ghastly, grotesque, moralistic carnie literature); Philistinism: re-telling/plagiarism of simplistic hero tales (pre-Don Quixote); End-time prophecies/conspiracies: Nostradamus, merging occultism and Biblical paranoia; Reactionaries: Fra Savonarola initiating book burnings and issuing penitence for all "sinners" ... (My point being that the perceived decline may well be a restart.) Obviously there is utter decline in art. Isn't it plainly obvious? Even the plainly obvious is in need of a definition that satisfies critical minds (and not just common sense). 180 Proof Perhaps the cultural & subjective needs traditionally satisfied by Art are now satisfied (or anaesthetized) by some other practice(s)? Sure, but it isn't the "satisfaction" with regards to what the ersatz does that I am defying -- it is the hollowing of its art-related properties. Scientific discoveries/advancements are often serendipitous, whereas art never can be. "Counterfactual dreaming" may be giving way to dreamless desire -- from neuropharmacological to computational techniques for hacking the CNS -- transforming auditors into self-excited circuits, subjects into projections. That would really be something ... Art has long been a "human" prosthesis; now "humans" seem prosthetics of Art (ala Feuerbach's dialectic) ... Art now makes us, we no longer make Art. Interesting point, but doesn't this juxtaposition denote a crisis of concept, that its properties are being redefined through a hollowing? We've simply passed from the "who am I?" phase of modernity in to the "what are you?" phase ... Well said. Slavoj Žižek's emphasis on "the other" and "otherness" comes to mind. What's needed, DTG, may be an aesthetics of prosthetics. A realization of Ballard's Crash ... StaticAge ... artists will still have their role as producers, but the people who imagine themselves as being able to explain it all are in serious jeopardy. It is actually reversed. Critics galore as artists play a copycat game. But a lot of postmodern analysis of art (as absorbed by art criticism) strikes me as very old world. "Old world?"... Care to elaborate? As far as the production of art, there are still the stars and the best and brightest which culture hold up as exemplary and masterful engineers. Don't confuse hegemony with ingenuity. ... there is no barometer to decry it as a "decline"... That is why we debate. I usually satirize the title of a subject to draw attention to the topic. I have done the same elsewhere by stating "Is Uncle Sam officially dead?" or by categorizing the reappearance of conspiratorial trolls in the forum as an "Opposition." If your theory is true ... ... then it is no longer a theory but a law. Get off the high horse and come down here with the rest of us losers ... Eh... I am trying to tell you -- again and again -- that the dichotomy of classy and folksy is irrelevant; "us against them" is a pre-1945 remnant that needs to be put to sleep. Why should I be concerned over this? ... why should that be upsetting to me? Why can't I just enjoy my life? ... Giving your fear investment of my concern empowers you at my own expense. I am not sure it exists at all. Ask your therapist ... I am only here for the sake of debate, not sap. Edited by Dr. Tyko Glas on 04/17/09 - 09:56 AM
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

Banno
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Posted 04/17/09 - 03:15 PM:	#35
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: Banno Yes, consider jouissance and space-time "exorcism" as two central aspects for anyone experiencing art. Why?
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

StaticAge
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Posted 04/17/09 - 05:05 PM:	#36
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: It is actually reversed. Critics galore as artists play a copycat game. And your evidence or well reasoned argument proving this is...? "Old world?"... Care to elaborate? Modern/pre-modern/enlightenment etc Don't confuse hegemony with ingenuity. Was I? That is why we debate. This is a debate? You haven't made clear what the subject matter is or if it is even an issue at all- you just claimed to satirize things in interest of drawing attention towards ideas you do not necessarily hold. ... then it is no longer a theory but a law. I think you misunderstand: a theory may be valid as long as it isn't disputed by contrary evidence, but if some comes up, it is disproven. Theories are an attempt to summarize observable phenomena, laws may work without anyone knowing why or how it works. Eh... I am trying to tell you -- again and again -- that the dichotomy of classy and folksy is irrelevant; "us against them" is a pre-1945 remnant that needs to be put to sleep. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Ask your therapist ... I am only here for the sake of debate, not sap. So you can't explain why this is supposed to be a subject worth interest? Strange way of debating.
"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." -Ecclesiastes 9:10 "Overpower, overcome." -The Cro-Mags

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 04/17/09 - 06:44 PM:	#37
StaticAge And your evidence or well reasoned argument proving this is...? Cable TV (almost 100% reruns), Hollywood remakes, sampling of music as "style" ... I could go on and on. Copycat art; eclectic copy-pasting; reduxing & remastering; revision ... all relating to a state of perpetual nostalgia. Modern/pre-modern/enlightenment etc That's your elaboration on how you view postmodernist critique? Don't confuse hegemony with ingenuity. Was I? Yes. Mass-produced merchandise lacks creators. Most bands have songwriters and "ghost musicians" as every TV show has a collection of writers who steal/borrow/copy from each other, always referring to a "master plot" from an older version of a show/series. What keeps them all in business is the hegemonic provider reshaping its products for the returning consumer. I think you misunderstand: a theory may be valid as long as it isn't disputed by contrary evidence ... Wrong. A theory -- in the sense of a construct -- is a set of statements devised to explain a group of phenomena. The initial outline relates to an abstract level. Pulling it down to the surface won't change the presets. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. ... courtesy of Kurt Cobain, "Territorial Pissings" on Nevermind (1991) -- parodying John Lennon's message to "smile on your brother" -- more nostalgia ... So you can't explain why this is supposed to be a subject worth interest? & Banno ... consider jouissance and space-time "exorcism" as two central aspects for anyone experiencing art. Why? In this case there are only abstract structures holding up provisional answers, concepts, phenomena ... Frankly speaking, there is no why as there is no final answer. Edited by Dr. Tyko Glas on 04/17/09 - 07:59 PM
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

Bobard
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Posted 04/17/09 - 11:10 PM:	#38
The OP has been troubling me for over a week but this morning I finally got it. Congratulations Dr TG – very Dada. Of course as a Stuckist I cannot condone this sort of activity, you understand, but well done nevertheless.
never argue with an idiot or a drunk

Banno
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Posted 04/18/09 - 04:03 AM:	#39
Dr. Tyko Glas wrote: In this case there are only abstract structures holding up provisional answers, concepts, phenomena ... Frankly speaking, there is no why as there is no final answer. Frankly speaking, I think you are talking through your hat.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Dr. Tyko Glas
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Posted 04/18/09 - 05:22 AM:	#40
Bobard The OP has been troubling me for over a week but this morning I finally got it. Congratulations Dr TG – very Dada. Thanks, but schizophrenia has greater appeal to me. Of course as a Stuckist I cannot condone this sort of activity, you understand, but well done nevertheless. That campy crowd? Do they still conform to the clown dress code while protesting? Banno Frankly speaking, I think you are talking through your hat. Speaking in dead metaphors ... As concluded here, a statement is a type of performance; reiterating why? -- in an attempt to get break down the structure -- would be the equivalent of throwing bricks at clouds.
"In the sphere of thought, absurdity and perversity remain the masters of the world, and their dominion is suspended only for brief periods." -- Arthur Schopenhauer

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