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APC - Argument from Paradigm Case

Ebbsy

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Posted 08/07/09 - 10:12 PM: Subject: APC - Argument from Paradigm Case	#1
APC is a fundamental argument in Linguistic Philosophy, yet I am a little confused as to its application. Can anyone clear this up and explain its meaning? Thank you

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Posted 09/20/09 - 01:02 PM:	#2
Can you throw up some references and philosophers in this regard?
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

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Posted 10/06/09 - 02:37 PM:	#3
Ebbsy wrote: APC is a fundamental argument in Linguistic Philosophy, yet I am a little confused as to its application. Can anyone clear this up and explain its meaning? Thank you It's quite simple. Anyone who claims that "there is no free will" should first explain why do we have that expression in our language. Would we have a phrase "against my will" if we really have no free will? Both "against my will" and "out of my own will" would be utterly meaningless if there is no experience we're refer to when using them. In order for a word to exist it has to have a reference in the "real world" because our capability to assimilate language largely depends on being exposed to those references in order to make sense of language. So if there is no free will where does the expression comes from? Without first explaining that any other argument against free will is simply being ignorant of the fact that "free will" really refers to quite tangible experience.
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

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Posted 10/06/09 - 07:08 PM:	#4
Ebbsy wrote: APC is a fundamental argument in Linguistic Philosophy, yet I am a little confused as to its application. It has been used as a fundamental argument, but its validity is disputed and the argument form itself is widely rejected. So don't get too attached. Ebbsy wrote: Can anyone clear this up and explain its meaning? APC is supposed to be a response to skepticism. If you are doubting that some object or phenomenon exists, one points to a paradigm case and says: "that's an example; if you still doubt, you are misusing the language." The problem with the argument is obvious: it's terribly superficial. Because while it may not be a safe thing to do, we are perfectly capable of building concepts that go beyond our actual experiences and include our assumptions about them. To take a simple example of the problem with APC, let's think about the word "magic." The word can mean something like the illusions or card tricks of a stage magician, or the wizardry of Merlin. So if someone from asks if there's such a thing as magic and you point him to a magician doing card tricks, he has every right to point out that he's not asking about that. He says he understands how card tricks work and doesn't consider them magic. He's wondering about wizardry. If you point to the magician again and say "that's a paradigm case of magic -- the word has been used that way for a long time," then you're really not answering the question. Moreover, notice that the word "magic still makes sense in the context of wizardry. One reason why the illusions and card tricks of stage magicians are called "magic" is because people have tried -- sometimes successfully -- to pass them off as wizardry. So we could make the argument in a historical setting: Suppose someone from the 15th century watches an illusionist performing. That illusionist insists that he is doing magic in the sense of "wizardry," and much of the crowd believes him. But one person, let's call him Reginald, doubts whether there is such a thing as wizardry. Another person in the crowd, let's call him James, scoffs and says "you just saw a paradigm case of wizardry, what more could you want?" We, thanks to our place in history, can look back on this tale and smirk at James' gullibility. We might also consider Reginald rather bright. But if APC were a good argument, our reactions should be reversed. Shamantrixx wrote: Anyone who claims that "there is no free will" should first explain why do we have that expression in our language. Would we have a phrase "against my will" if we really have no free will? Both "against my will" and "out of my own will" would be utterly meaningless if there is no experience we're refer to when using them. In order for a word to exist it has to have a reference in the "real world" because our capability to assimilate language largely depends on being exposed to those references in order to make sense of language. So if there is no free will where does the expression comes from? Without first explaining that any other argument against free will is simply being ignorant of the fact that "free will" really refers to quite tangible experience. By that logic, unicorns must exist. We have an expression to refer to them, and it is meaningful insofar as it is robust enough that I know how to separate unicorns from non-unicorns (by which I mean I can accurately take any object you show me and decide whether or not it is a unicorn given sufficient access to information about the object). Why, all sorts of things must actually exist that were previously thought to be fictional! Someone fetch me a Vulcan! I could really use one as a moderator.
"The key to being a good manager is keeping the people who hate me away from those who are still undecided." --Casey Stengel

Shamantrixx
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Posted 10/07/09 - 04:35 AM:	#5
Postmodern Beatnik wrote: By that logic, unicorns must exist. Not really. Unicorn as a word is obviously is a product of internal merging. You know... the finite number of words giving the infinite amount of expressions where the finite number has a reference in the real world, while the infinite number is simply a product of merging and combining the finite. Postmodern Beatnik wrote: Someone fetch me a Vulcan! I could really use one as a moderator. Have you considered changing your profession... maybe as a stand up comedian?
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

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Posted 10/07/09 - 06:24 AM:	#6
Shamantrixx wrote: Postmodern Beatnik wrote: By that logic, unicorns must exist. Not really. Unicorn as a word is obviously is a product of internal merging. You know... the finite number of words giving the infinite amount of expressions where the finite number has a reference in the real world, while the infinite number is simply a product of merging and combining the finite. Maybe free will is that, too. That's my point. What you said was that the existence of a meaningful expression in a language demonstrates the existing of the thing to which that expression refers. "Unicorn" is a meaningful expression, so I asked you to point me to a unicorn. Shamantrixx wrote: Have you considered changing your profession... maybe as a stand up comedian? Please, I'm barely funny enough to be a philosopher -- and we can be a pretty humorless bunch.
"The key to being a good manager is keeping the people who hate me away from those who are still undecided." --Casey Stengel

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Posted 10/07/09 - 08:38 AM:	#7
Postmodern Beatnik wrote: Maybe free will is that, too. Maybe it is... except that it isn't. Uni + cornu = abstract concept coined by merging two existing symbols, while each of those symbols does have a meaningful and tangible reference in the real world. Postmodern Beatnik wrote: That's my point. What you said was that the existence of a meaningful expression in a language demonstrates the existing of the thing to which that expression refers. "Unicorn" is a meaningful expression, so I asked you to point me to a unicorn. And that means simply pointing to "one" and "horn" Postmodern Beatnik wrote: Please, I'm barely funny enough to be a philosopher -- and we can be a pretty humorless bunch. Well... that's something I can agree with. If one refuses to take him self seriously than everything else follows of it self... of it self so.
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

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Posted 10/07/09 - 10:57 AM:	#8
I much prefer point to horses and norwhales (i might have the wrong name. They have this 18+ foot 'tooth' that is used to puncture ice.) and exclaiming that there exists an evolutionary imperative that supports the existence of uni-corns.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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Posted 10/07/09 - 11:07 AM:	#9
Shamantrixx wrote: Maybe it is... except that it isn't. Argument by assertion. Tell me why I could not come up with the idea of free will by mentally combining the idea of will (a phenomenon that is quite familiar to me) and the idea of not caused (which could just be the negation of caused, though Hume might use causality itself as a counterexample to the validity of APC). Or if not caused isn't enough, we can go with self-caused (a combination of self and caused, with the same caveat as before). Shamantrixx wrote: Uni + cornu = abstract concept coined by merging two existing symbols, while each of those symbols does have a meaningful and tangible reference in the real world. [...] And that means simply pointing to "one" and "horn." A unicorn is a creature with an equine body, a caprine beard, a leonine tail, cloven hooves, and a horn growing out of its forehead. Pointing to "one" and "horn" simply will not do the trick. And again, I fail to see how the notion of free will cannot be broken down into simpler elements that can be found in the world to be synthesized in our minds. Shamantrixx wrote: Well... that's something I can agree with. If one refuses to take himself seriously, then everything else follows of itself... of itself so. Well, I tend to agree with Bugs Bunny: "Don't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive."
"The key to being a good manager is keeping the people who hate me away from those who are still undecided." --Casey Stengel

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Posted 10/07/09 - 11:16 AM:	#10
If I point to my Grandmother's grave and claim "Here lie the remains of my grandmother. Proof of my grandmother only lies within the APC function because I was adopted." How does that affect the existence of the remains of the person I pointed to? Assume of course that she is indeed my grandmother - and not some random person.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

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