Antinatalism is best natalism

Antinatalism is best natalism
MeowMix
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 1:36 AM:
Subject: Antinatalism is best natalism

>have a child

child is pretty much guaranteed to experience suffering

>don't have a child

no child exists to be deprived of the good things in life

Blaise St Mary
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 2:07 AM:

The issue centers on a interpretation of death and the afterlife. If you take death to be complete annihilation, then any memory of suffering is snuffed out with consciousness. The child may as well never have suffered in the slightest, as the least trace of its suffering is extinguished.

If you accept the possibility of an afterlife, daunting complications arise.

As an agnostic vis-a-vis any suggestion of an afterlife, you may, for the sake of symmetry, need to concede agnosticism vis-a-vis the problem of natalism.

Edited by Blaise St Mary on Mar 6, 2013 - 2:33 AM
unenlightened
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 2:20 AM:

It's not all about pleasure and suffering.
dex
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 2:29 AM:

Also, why have your own child when you could adopt one from the orphanage? Good for a kid who's already alive; good for keeping the population down; no hassle with being pregnant.
On Mar 11, 2013 - 12:53 AM, andrewk responded: What orphanage? We'd need a time machine to find one.
On Sep 9, 2013 - 12:28 PM, Veritas Vincit responded: @andrewk: For "orphanage" read "adoption agency" or "foster home". It's about adoption, which I wish more prospective parents would consider.
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 3:37 AM:

Anti-natalism is intuitively appealing, and the world blows, but the justifications I've heard for it just don't work. It's usually founded on negative utilitarianism, which like its positive counterpart is highly suspect.
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Posted Mar 6, 2013 - 12:03 PM:

Love breeds love and the old die off.
MeowMix
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Posted Mar 10, 2013 - 11:30 PM:

The Great Whatever wrote:
Anti-natalism is intuitively appealing, and the world blows, but the justifications I've heard for it just don't work. It's usually founded on negative utilitarianism, which like its positive counterpart is highly suspect.

But why bother justifying it? I mean at the end of the day it is you who has to decide whether the justification is good enough or not, so why not just skip the middle man and say "having kids is bad because I say so". Probably just as likely (0%) to convince someone not to as spouting some dry boredom about asymmetry and utilitarianism. Neither is going to change a single thing.

Forced sterilization and abortions on the other hand....

On Sep 9, 2013 - 12:30 PM, Veritas Vincit responded: Wait a minute! When did this become about forced sterilization?
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Posted Mar 11, 2013 - 2:38 AM:

MeowMix wrote:
But why bother justifying it?


Yes indeed. Why bother bringing this up (again) when you're not even going to make the effort to come up with a cogent argument?
On Mar 11, 2013 - 3:30 AM, baden511 responded: Agreed, let's not give birth to any more of these threads. Talk about needless suffering...
On Mar 11, 2013 - 4:12 AM, andrewk responded: I've moved it to casual, as it's not a serious attempt to discuss the topic.
MeowMix
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Posted Apr 16, 2013 - 5:41 AM:

Do you think it would be acceptable to, without their consent, infect someone with a fatal illness whose treatment provides some degree of pleasure to the patient?
Yahadreas
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Posted Apr 16, 2013 - 1:43 PM:

MeowMix wrote:
child is pretty much guaranteed to experience suffering


Unless you live in abject poverty, have a debilitating illness, have at some point been tortured, or experienced genuine grief, then you have not suffered. Petty problems, small pains, and occasional bouts of depression do not qualify as reasons to not have lived.

I've been hurt. I've been sad. But I have never suffered. And I'm sure the same is true of most of us lucky enough to live in a wealthy, healthy, and relatively safe society.
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