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An Attack on Indexicality

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An Attack on Indexicality

Aetixintro
Concepts and descriptions

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Posted 07/02/09 - 08:27 PM:	#61
jtoma wrote: What would be the virtue that an indexical free language would have that an indexical containing language does not have? Good question! I can't say there is any difference at all. It may appear more "scientific" if it's indexical free, but it's really in the air. It's not a part of the purpose of this thread to answer this question. I have yet to discover the essential, the necessary about it. Cheers!
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

jtoma
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Posted 07/02/09 - 09:01 PM:	#62
An indexical free language may well appear more scientific. Sorry for barking up the wrong tree. Cheers.

Hessian
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Posted 08/04/09 - 09:18 PM:	#63
Aetixintro wrote: People... I have been reading "The Problem of the Essential Indexical" by John Perry and I have a proposal in reaction to it. I consider here the three indexicals, I, here, and now. Only these! We want to have a timeline. So here I'll try to remove now by: A human by the name Jesus, social security number so-and-so, white robe, long hair is dead, therefore we are in year 0 (zero). We want to mention a certain place. So here I'll try to remove here by: A place is at the coordinates so-and-so in the system of planet Earth. We want to mention a certain person. So here I'll try to remove I by: A person by the name so-and-so, with the social security number so-and-so, perhaps a description and a history so-and-so. So, are indexicals necessary? I suggest that they are wholly ripe for elimination, theoretically. They are around because they are practical. Let's say we have an actual, obvious space and in it is an object. By giving the right description, we can remove the need for pointing and thus the definite need for indexicals disappears. Let's try with an example from John Perry's article. John Perry writes something like this: "I'm looking for the person who is making a mess in the supermarket. After a while I find that the person who is making the mess is myself. I'm making a mess. I'm taking action to limit the mess." If I'm to explain this without indexical, I: (John Perry is making a mess at time, t₁, in the supermarket, but he does not know this.) John Perry is looking for the person who is making a mess in the supermarket at time, t₂. After a while at time, t₃, John Perry finds that the person who is making the mess is himself. John Perry has been making a mess. John Perry takes action at time, t₄, to limit the mess. F**k the indexicals! What do you think? Can we do without the indexicals? If something is unclear, please point it out! P.S.: Hans Reichenbach is developing something similar in "Elements of Symbolic Logic, 1947", §50: Token-reflexive Words. We are in the same direction, I believe, with me being a bit more radical. It is as much argueing if they are necessary as much as they have become an integral part of language for whatever reason (most likely to simplfiy things, why insert coordinates or mention location if you could just use the world "here" and everyone would fully comprehend?) and it would take more of an effort to have them removed. Language usually evolves due to popular culture more than anything else, and we usually have an addition of words (there are actually alot more words which existed now, than those that existed during Shakespeare's) more than a removal. Oh sancta simplicitas! It is best to leave such needless manners unvisited and trust humanity to rid itself of anything absolutely meaningless pure by erosion than by intentional eradication.

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