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Absurdism

oneangryzeus
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Posted 05/09/08 - 07:27 AM: Subject: Absurdism	#1
I would love to open a discussion about absurdism. The basic idea is that the human being craves unity but the world is "indifferent" (aka the world isn't structured but is chaotic) to our desires. Therefore, life is meaningless but, rather than fall into deep despair, one should realize the absurdity of life and thus consider themselves free from restrictions (i.e. social restrictions, NOT moral restrictions which may cause a problem but one should realize that others are in the same situation as you, so you shouldn't harm them in anyway although this argument is a little flimsy). In my own personal philosophy, I try to infuse this philosophical idea with the idea of laughter. The idea of freedom should bring you happiness above all else. I thus try to laugh at life and the absurdity of it. Please discuss. Any thoughts or problems with the ideas? Own personal takes on the ideas? Anything?

cortes
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Posted 05/09/08 - 07:46 AM:	#2
This is not far from what I have proposed in "Philosophy of Conquistadorianism" though I have taken a somewhat different path thereafter. It is not so much that life is "therefore" meangingless as that we are free to pursue our own meaning.
Copyright (c) 2008 Hernan Cortes, Sociedad de los Conquistadores. cortes@conquistador.org http://www.conquistador.org

oneangryzeus
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Posted 05/09/08 - 07:57 AM:	#3
Yea, I think there is definitely an underlying sense of that in absurdism. If you can't come to grips with the meaninglessness of life, then, as Camus puts it, you can take the "leap" to something bigger. But, Camus also states that partaking in that "leap" means you're not being true to yourself or to the full meaning of the absurdity of the world.

keda
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Posted 05/09/08 - 08:04 AM:	#4
Laughter is often connected with absurdity, because we laugh at things that are contrary to ones expectations. Smile or laughter is connected with breaking a tension that existed by the expectations defined in a particular situation. It is an expression of relief and freedom of previously existing constraints.
All about making money Free Europe Now How to fix your country In thought, men distance themselves from nature in order thus imaginatively to present it to themselves--but only in order to determine how it is to be dominated - Adorno and Horkheimer

The Escapist
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Posted 05/09/08 - 12:56 PM:	#5
oneangryzeus wrote: I would love to open a discussion about absurdism. The basic idea is that the human being craves unity but the world is "indifferent" (aka the world isn't structured but is chaotic) to our desires. Therefore, life is meaningless... Please discuss. Any thoughts or problems with the ideas? Own personal takes on the ideas? Anything? Does the human being crave unity? I'm not sure I crave unity, and I am human. What is this "unity" that I am supposed to crave? The world is not indifferent to our desires (figuratively speaking), and it is structured. Our desires are based on the structure of the world and its ability to fulfil our desires. This is true of lower animals too I think, but we are unique in our ability to modify the world to satisfy our desires, and our ability to modify our desires in line with what a modified world can provide. I don't see how you get from "the world is indifferent" to "life is meaningless". Life is what gives an otherwise formless universe structure.

Prime_Mover
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Posted 05/09/08 - 01:55 PM:	#6
oneangryzeus wrote: life is meaningless but, rather than fall into deep despair, one should realize the absurdity of life and thus consider themselves free from restrictions... Why should I fall into "deep despair" if life is meaningless? The very question of "the meaning of life" is meaningless; and a philosophy built on a meaningless question is likewise meaningless. Things in your life (chairs, desks, lamps) can have meaning, but to say that life can even have meaning is nonsensical. The answer to the question applies only to those living life: the question itself suffers from recursion, where the function being defined is applied within its own definition. Thus, you do not need a metaphysical scheme to tell you that your life is determined by you and you alone, and it's your responsibility to make the best of it.

oneangryzeus
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Posted 05/09/08 - 04:39 PM:	#7
The unity you crave is applying language to the world, rational thought, planning out your life, all of which requires the world to be structured when it isn't. Anything can happen at any time. Although the possibilities of you walking into a street and getting hit by a car or a meteor falling on your entire family, etc. is rare, it can still happen. The fact that the human being lives without thinking of these possible events (because worrying your whole life would not be a good way to live) is in itself a craving for unity. The world is not structured, it is chaotic. The fact that you think it's structured is your mind's desire for such structure and your ignorance (aka ignoring) of the chaos of the world. And to Rational Animal, could you explain your point a bit deeper?

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Posted 05/09/08 - 06:27 PM:	#8
oneangryzeus wrote: And to Rational Animal, could you explain your point a bit deeper? Think of "the meaning of life" this way: you find a "divine" dictionary, one with all definitions to every word of all human languages. Under the English section, you look up under the L's, and find the entry for life. But what is the meaning of life? The definition reads: "(see Life)". This is recursion. Consider, then, the statement "the meaning of y", where 'y' is any word. "The meaning of y" assesses the significance, function, purpose, intent, importance of 'y' in the context of how 'y' is used in life ('y', whatever it is, cannot have any function or purpose when no one is alive to use it!). If 'y' is a hammer or a lake, "the meaning of hammers" and "the meaning of lakes" are valid, meaningful questions. However, "the meaning of y", when 'y' = 'life', is recursive because it essentially asks "what is the meaning of life (in life)?" If one were to provide an answer, that answer would contain self-reference and hence wouldn't answer the question at all.
On philosophical vacation until May 8, 2009.

The Escapist
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Posted 05/10/08 - 01:51 AM:	#9
oneangryzeus wrote: The unity you crave is applying language to the world, rational thought, planning out your life, all of which requires the world to be structured when it isn't. Anything can happen at any time. Although the possibilities of you walking into a street and getting hit by a car or a meteor falling on your entire family, etc. is rare, it can still happen. The fact that the human being lives without thinking of these possible events (because worrying your whole life would not be a good way to live) is in itself a craving for unity. The world is not structured, it is chaotic. The fact that you think it's structured is your mind's desire for such structure and your ignorance (aka ignoring) of the chaos of the world. Well Zeus, if you think the world is unstructured, I would like you to give an example of something that is structured. What is a "structure"? I think you are just wrong. I do "apply language to the world" quite effectively, in fact I do it all day, as I am a professional translator. I'm not sure about you, but I do have rational thoughts. Some of the stuff I translate is technical, safety-related, some of it is legal. If I didn't have rational thoughts about the meaning of the texts I work on, my clients would quickly become disenchanted with me. I worry about being hit by a car or a meteorite in a rational way. Because you are wrong, and not "anything can happen", I worry more about cars than meteorites. That's because the structure of the world makes being hit by a car much more likely. I still don't know what you mean by "unity" and I'm starting to think you don't either.

Landlady
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Posted 05/10/08 - 07:38 AM:	#10
oneangryzeus wrote: The basic idea is that the human being craves unity but the world is "indifferent" (aka the world isn't structured but is chaotic) to our desires. Therefore, life is meaningless but, rather than fall into deep despair, one should realize the absurdity of life and thus consider themselves free from restrictions. In my own personal philosophy, I try to infuse this philosophical idea with the idea of laughter. I think structure definitely exists in nature (hierarchy in animal life, as well as symmetry in crystal formations, for example), it just doesnâ€™t have an apparent meaning or purpose. Even survival of life, it can be argued, is accidental (due to random mutations that allow it to withstand the pressures of a current environment). oneangryzeus wrote: The idea of freedom should bring you happiness above all else. I thus try to laugh at life and the absurdity of it. I would say that it is more of a bittersweet happiness. Everything being perceived as absurd, nothing can justify being happy about, except, perhaps, your awareness of your own be-ing in the world, which you also know will not last. Laughter has an effect of distancing one from the phenomenon (it is often used to break up an unpleasant tension among the parties, for instance), and as such, it can be seen as sort of an escape route in which, instead of absorbing/accepting the realization (which can be painful), one chooses to distance himself from it (and thus, manage to dull the pain).
There is time to laugh and there is time not to laugh, and this is not one of them. - Insp. Clouseau. Each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life; to life he can only respond by being responsible. - Frankl.

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