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A Relevant Definition for Existence
A characteristic of existence that gives more meaning to the concept.

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A Relevant Definition for Existence

James S Saint
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Posted 10/28/09 - 01:31 PM:	#31
duszek wrote: You can think of a hare without naming it, if you walk in the woods and see one or visualize it in your mind, That is my point. Thinking OF something is the visualization or simulated imagining of its sensed properties. Merely calling it out be name is NOT thinking of it.

Kant Chocula
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Posted 10/29/09 - 03:55 PM:	#32
James S Saint wrote: That is my point. Thinking OF something is the visualization or simulated imagining of its sensed properties. Merely calling it out be name is NOT thinking of it. If I think of "triangularity" I do not need to have the visualization or simulated imagining of its sensible properties. I can think of the a priori rules by which triangularity is defined without thinking of a particular triangle, and a representation of triangularity (abstract triangle) cannot be imagined.
A categorically delicious part of your noumenal breakfast.

duszek
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Posted 10/30/09 - 02:57 AM:	#33
I agree with Kant Chocula. Lots of abstract concepts resist visualization. How do you visualize "charity" ? or love ? or happiness ? or freedom ? or democracy ? or justice ? How do you visualize "day" or "year" etc. And you use all these terms all the time. You can only operate these terms in your mind by establishing logical connections between them. There is some connection between love and happiness: love can make you happy or unhappy, depending on .... There are 365 days in a year.

duszek
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Posted 11/02/09 - 09:30 AM:	#34
So if we apply the criterion of effect in order to establish existence, we have two large groups: 1. all real things, that is all things that exist really, also those unperceived by any creature living on earth - yes, Mr. Berkeley ! - like for example a little stone on the ground of the ocean, for it has the effect of gravitation and the effect of occupying some space which cannot be occupied by anything else at the same time 2. all things that exist as concepts only, in some minds The problem with group 2. is that we cannot say that some concept does NOT exist. As soon as we try to do it (for example a dog with nine legs) the concept begins to exist. So is there anything that does not exist ? Only concepts that have not entered anyone´s mind yet. Possible concepts. It is with a good reason that I put it in a general way and avoid carefully to be specific. And what happens when some concepts are forgotten ? Do they cease to exist ? That would be a very fragile and temporary sort of existence.

James S Saint
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Posted 11/02/09 - 09:55 AM:	#35
duszek wrote: So if we apply the criterion of effect in order to establish existence, we have two large groups: 1. all real things, that is all things that exist really, also those unperceived by any creature living on earth - yes, Mr. Berkeley ! - like for example a little stone on the ground of the ocean, for it has the effect of gravitation and the effect of occupying some space which cannot be occupied by anything else at the same time 2. all things that exist as concepts only, in some minds The problem with group 2. is that we cannot say that some concept does NOT exist. As soon as we try to do it (for example a dog with nine legs) the concept begins to exist. So is there anything that does not exist ? Only concepts that have not entered anyone´s mind yet. Possible concepts. It is with a good reason that I put it in a general way and avoid carefully to be specific. And what happens when some concepts are forgotten ? Do they cease to exist ? That would be a very fragile and temporary sort of existence. This situation in the past has been handled by what was called the "realm of the Divine" and/or the "supernatural realm" (super=above nature in that it "governs nature"). The realm of the Divine refers to perfect concepts and principles. Within that realm, each concept or principle has affect upon each other, but none of those can actually exist within the "real" physical universe except the one principle that is the combination of all of the others. That one is reflected in every instance of the physical universe and without which, there could be no physical universe. That one all-encompassing Principle concerning how anything and everything works is what was once called "Elohim" and now more frequently known as "God". But the other principles, though of the Divine realm of existence, can become present in the physical realm as soon as any principle or concept is actually being manifest. An example would be gravity. As long as gravity is being expressed in the universe, the principle by which it operates is also a part of the universe. Thus the other lesser principles come into the universe and out of it as the physical universe changes in accord with the highest Principle of all ("the god of gods"). Thus there are 2 realms of existence. One is the physical and the other is the Divine which at times enters into the physical through thought or manifested events. This has been the nature of all of the arguing going on about superstition, spirits, supernatural, God, and so on. It is really only about ways to envision reality as people get carried away with mis-speculations of what is being discussed.

duszek
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Posted 11/02/09 - 10:27 AM:	#36
Let us assume that in the stone age the concept of a balance sheet did not enter anyone´s mind yet. Would you say that it existed then (as a possibility) because it was to exist later on ? I would not call this concept "devine", but today it takes effect so it does exist.

James S Saint
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Posted 11/03/09 - 01:30 AM:	#37
duszek wrote: Let us assume that in the stone age the concept of a balance sheet did not enter anyone´s mind yet. Would you say that it existed then (as a possibility) because it was to exist later on ? I would not call this concept "devine", but today it takes effect so it does exist. The Divine was to refer to the perfect concepts and principles. The "supernatural" refers to merely any principle or concept. A concept that can never be manifest in the physical such as a perfect square, is "trapped" in the supernatural realm and can never "escape". That is how you get mythological stories and movie scripts. Whether all concepts have always existed in that other realm leads to the concern of time. In the supernatural and Divine realms, nothing ever changes and thus there is no time. The entities within affect each other "in concept", but not in event flow. There are no "temporal events". Thus it is said that they exist "outside of time". This was all discussed back in the Platonian era. Edited by James S Saint on 11/03/09 - 01:37 AM

exel+two
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Posted 11/03/09 - 01:49 PM:	#38
The only parameter something needs to satisfy to constitute existence is your opinion on it's existence.

James S Saint
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Posted 11/03/09 - 05:54 PM:	#39
exel+two wrote: The only parameter something needs to satisfy to constitute existence is your opinion on it's existence. Only if your confidence is such that your opinion is has effect upon your belief.

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