A question of creation.: Philosophy Forums

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A question of creation.

Evolutionizary
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Posted 07/05/05 - 06:32 PM: Subject: A question of creation.	#1
No matter where your beliefs lie. What does it mean to you that in our existential dimension creation requires no detectable conscious thought? For a sub-question where and (if) what tangible state does conscious thought make existence and can thought be unconscious? It seems to me that thought is a process with x components designed to produce conclusion. I have the idea that through this process we communicate with ourselves (suggesting mind counterparts?). Solution defines all thought, no? What is it in us that makes us unique creations in questioning our own existence? Why are we to possess the dissastisfaction that none other than ourselves can understand? How far does curiosities use stretch and what is its potential?

Gramm
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Posted 07/05/05 - 06:58 PM:	#2
Evolutionizary wrote: No matter where your beliefs lie. What does it mean to you that in our existential dimension, creation requires no detectable conscious thought? I suppose it hinges on your definition of "conscious" and consciousness.. as well as how you test for "detectable" or undetectable.... Gramm
Light is not diminished by being shared. Desiderata

Evolutionizary
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Posted 07/05/05 - 07:57 PM:	#3
Which is why i asked you to identify your hinge. I attribute consciousness to one aware of its existence as a quirk. Test for detectable and undetectable...well i suppose i would have to employ my five senses and ask them.. I'm looking for thought in a tree or blade of grass they're classed as living and exist to create. We can not communicate nor will the subject react to me outside the physical laws that govern it. Neither tastes, smells, nor feels curios. They display the most basic characteristics of life yet appear to me as conscious as any rock. Thus the unaware are structured to and implement the tools of creation. Gramm what are your most impacting desires if you dont mind sharing, excuse me for asking if you do, and anyone else, please. What makes the bovine content and the homosapien so often not? '

abba
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Posted 07/06/05 - 05:50 AM:	#4
Here is some reading material on the topic of Consciousness: http://www.imprint.co.uk/jcs/ Go to the bottom, & have your browser set to accept .pdf documents. Also, here is a poem I once wrote on the general line: A Doubter's Random Thoughts I just told a guy he was discontinuous. That's what philosophers do. Suborning hope, we supply the straight dope. Though our words that are true are few. I feel I'm an echo of all of their thoughts. Those giants of yesterday. I troll and I mull for hints of myself. And inside, I'm too proud to pray. I envy my dog his wandering bliss. Is consciousness some kind of hell? Perhaps there's someone who knows all this stuff. But he was born mute and can't tell. Why is God picking on me? If He'd tell me, I'd sure straighten out. But "They" say I can't know which way the wind blows. So I'm left here in darkness and doubt. But my mind's still my own; that's some consolation. I'm free to be me everyday. So I poke into meaning, with great depth of feeling. While I'm drifting, just drifting away.

Evolutionizary
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Posted 07/06/05 - 12:01 PM:	#5
Ah very nice link thank you will be going on favorites. Genius poem as well too bad it has to leave us in the dark... I find myself wondering if i ask Him to direct me, acknowledge me, console me and i recieve nature as the only answer why do I not accept it as eden? Did Adam and Eve not have to quench thirst and hunger?

Electric Zoroaster
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Posted 07/06/05 - 05:00 PM:	#6
According to most religions their god has been around before the earth was created, often times little children say "then who created god?" It takes a very powerful mind, or blind faith to begin to comprehend, or accept the fact that god had no start, and he has no end. I still can't wrap my brain around such a mind-blowing concept, it takes a lot of time, I accept it, but I do not yet understand it.
http://s12.invisionfree.com/Axiom/

Evolutionizary
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Posted 07/07/05 - 12:09 AM:	#7
I suppose my point is if creation does not require consciousness then why assume our creator is conscious? Maybe the mind is a recent development...

mileman
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Posted 07/09/05 - 07:35 PM:	#8
Electric Zoroaster, it is a mind blowing concept, but it has to be taken by faith. I came up with an argument (that doesn't work) to demonstrate this in a way. P1) All things that exist have been created. P2) God created man, and everything that exists. P3) Nobody created God. Thus... C1) God doesn't exist (P1 and P3). C2) If God doesn't exist, then nobody created us. C3) If nobody created us, then we don't exist. However, since we have the ability to think, we know that we exist. So either all things that exists weren't necessarily created by anybody, or God created them all, but nobody created God. Even if somebody did, you end up going all the way back and having some 'original creator' that nobody created. Thus, being created by somebody (or something) is not a requirement for existence.
I think, therefore, I am

Germ
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Posted 07/20/05 - 11:59 AM:	#9
If God had no begining, why then should the universe have a begining? Why shouldn't the universe have always existed just like God has? This is an atheists response to "How could the universe have begun without a creator?" I believe there is a God, but I Mileman's argument isn't a watertight argument, as he said. My point is, just because we exist doesn't mean there is a God.

arreno2
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Posted 07/20/05 - 05:43 PM:	#10
What is it in us that makes us unique creations in questioning our own existence? Why are we to possess the dissastisfaction that none other than ourselves can understand? How far does curiosities use stretch and what is its potential?[/quote] Our ego, over developed and ever running. It's the 'pat on the back' in your statement. or not.
Ya don't need a pyramid to exit.

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