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A content agnostic?

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A content agnostic?

Dionysus0
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Posted 12/11/06 - 10:11 PM: Subject: A content agnostic?	#1
Is it possible to be one? I find myself constantly wrestling whether there is a God or there isn't one. The only rock the agnostic has: is that neither the theist or atheist can adequately prove there there side, since there are deductive proofs for both. Now if I think there is a god I feel superstitious after a while(Santa Claus). On the other hand if I deny God's existence I may be missing out on something that would give an answer to the creation of the universe and a possible teleology; my conception of God is that the entity is beyond human understanding. It may be that the issue is moot for humanity.

wuliheron
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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 12/12/06 - 07:51 AM:	#2
Because we are ignorant we may learn, thus, being agnostic is not a weak stance but an empowering stance. Either you do believe in a god(s) or you don't. Admitting our ignorance is the first step towards wisdom. For me their is no angst about whether their is a god or not. Life is a miraculous (ie wonderous and awe inspiring) gift which I never did a thing to deserve. It is a gift without strings attached and I can return it at any time I choose. If there is a god, so much the better. If there is not a god, I still have the miracle of life and it is the only miracle I need (sic). In addition, if there is a god I suspect s/he is infinitely humble and loving and does not require me to believe anything.

Owen
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Posted 12/12/06 - 08:32 AM:	#3
Dionysus0 wrote: Is it possible to be one? I find myself constantly wrestling whether there is a God or there isn't one. The only rock the agnostic has: is that neither the theist or atheist can adequately prove there there side, since there are deductive proofs for both. Now if I think there is a god I feel superstitious after a while(Santa Claus). On the other hand if I deny God's existence I may be missing out on something that would give an answer to the creation of the universe and a possible teleology; my conception of God is that the entity is beyond human understanding. It may be that the issue is moot for humanity. I too am a content agnostic, but for different reasons. I do not believe there are any spiritual entities. Therefore, 'God does exist' or 'God does not exist' has no sense at all. That is, 'God exists' is neither true nor false, it is a sentence but it is not a proposition that can be proven one way or the other.

Thomistic
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Posted 12/12/06 - 10:16 AM:	#4
Agnosticism is simply apathy towards whether God exists. It does not look at the consequences of either decision because the consequences are that which determines how a person lives in today's telelogically created morality. Its too bad that everything is measured by consequences, since we cannot see the big-picture since we are only making "possible theories". Rather we should get back to the basics, cause and effect. Not to determine the effect, but what the purpose of the cause was and to what purpose the effect. Such that we look over Aquinas proofs of God, so as to understand why God is important to the theist. Then look at the athiest, and see that all he does is place doubt over the most common-sensical ideas, and actually rejects common-sense. Agnosticism is just a phase of frustration, but eventually it will cause the person to become very frustrated since they will dive their nose into a life of athiesm. They will live like an atheist, but not believe like an athiest. All I can advise a person to do is look at their nature as a person, recognize what they want (happiness), and find that which will make them happy, not in the "moment" but for a long time. That will guide you to your purpose in life and whether there is a God.
"Truth Being and Beauty are all the same, but differ in the mind," - Aquinas "You cannot put a price on awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

Thomistic
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Posted 12/12/06 - 10:20 AM:	#5
Owen wrote: I too am a content agnostic, but for different reasons. I do not believe there are any spiritual entities. Therefore, 'God does exist' or 'God does not exist' has no sense at all. That is, 'God exists' is neither true nor false, it is a sentence but it is not a proposition that can be proven one way or the other. That does not make any sense. It is an either-or proposition which does make sense. Either Absolute and finite, or only Finite is another way of putting it. Since we know Finite exists, we can add an either or. The tools we used to decide the Absolute will be based upon induction. you cannot say that the sentence makes no sense though, because it does. If you say you do not believe in spirit, you are saying you do not believe in God. So you are not an agnostic, you are an athiest.
"Truth Being and Beauty are all the same, but differ in the mind," - Aquinas "You cannot put a price on awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

zedjones
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Posted 12/12/06 - 11:16 AM:	#6
after a bit of recent trawling through such forums i think that agnosticism is something to be admired. what happened to being satisfied with proclaiming not to know in light of insufficient evidence, one way or the other? it seems that lately everyone is either a theist or an atheist - it seems that so many intelligent people feel that they have to take a side - kind of like we are involved in some kind of war - and then set their stalls by it. so wholeheartedly agree with the first two posters. wuliheron, what happened to that socratic spirit? regards, zed
"You shouldn't be angry to hear the truth, if you're lucky enough to find someone to hear it from" - Saul Bellow

Thomistic
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Posted 12/12/06 - 12:05 PM:	#7
zedjones wrote: after a bit of recent trawling through such forums i think that agnosticism is something to be admired. what happened to being satisfied with proclaiming not to know in light of insufficient evidence, one way or the other? it seems that lately everyone is either a theist or an atheist - it seems that so many intelligent people feel that they have to take a side - kind of like we are involved in some kind of war - and then set their stalls by it. so wholeheartedly agree with the first two posters. wuliheron, what happened to that socratic spirit? regards, zed I disagree with you with pasion and rationality. Socrates was not a skeptic, he removed people from ignorance, which suggests that there is a truth. In fact he died for the sake of the Truth, looking for it. Agnostics are apathetic towards the meaning of life and their own life, and there isn't anything more miserable or a joke than that. No offence, but a person who does not use reason to search for the Truth is only saying that its hard and I don't want to try. Or rather, I don't want to deal with the truth. Such a concept goes against one's nature, and is ignorant and selfish, contrary to reason. That is why I respect the average athiest because at least they are looking for the truth, with hopfully no agenda. Agnostics on the otherhand put the important issues on the bookshelf and twiddle their thumbs until the die and have not experienced the individual or importance of life whatso ever. All I can say to you, is that you should care either way, get off your lazy butt and start thinking.
"Truth Being and Beauty are all the same, but differ in the mind," - Aquinas "You cannot put a price on awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

Alford_Korztein
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Posted 12/12/06 - 12:21 PM:	#8
Aren't agnostics content with the "fact" that ultimate knowledge is unattainable? I thought that was a definition of agnostic. There's a kind of faith right there that is akin to the Christian faith which I do not agree with. It's akin in the way that Christians say that it is impossible to know the mind of God. Atheists have the arrogance to think they can discover the mind of God in their definition, which either is or is not a deistic-type God (being, intelligence, etc.) and therefore have the motivation to be ultimately curious about the origins of the Universe, as Thomistic suggests. The way I see agnostics are that they are content to not know because they think that ultimate knowledge is impossible, though they will sure accept whatever knowledge is available. I simply dislike the platform on which their motivation rests. I see the atheist as skeptical about everything, and someone can please prove me wrong on that point, but I do not see the agnostic as skeptical about the inability to attain ultimate knowledge of the Universe. I think they are stuck in the mindset of being-human and can't contemplate transcending their present ignorance. I'm skeptical as to whether we can or not but I haven't made up my mind that we can not, especially since we do not know. That takes faith to make up one's mind about the capabilities of our understanding the Universe, in my opinion, and I don't like faith. I haven't stretched my agnostic-disliking muscles in a while, so have at me. Where did I go wrong?

zedjones
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Posted 12/12/06 - 02:51 PM:	#9
"I disagree with you with pasion and rationality. Socrates was not a skeptic, he removed people from ignorance, which suggests that there is a truth. In fact he died for the sake of the Truth, looking for it. Agnostics are apathetic towards the meaning of life and their own life, and there isn't anything more miserable or a joke than that. No offence, but a person who does not use reason to search for the Truth is only saying that its hard and I don't want to try. Or rather, I don't want to deal with the truth. Such a concept goes against one's nature, and is ignorant and selfish, contrary to reason. That is why I respect the average athiest because at least they are looking for the truth, with hopfully no agenda. Agnostics on the otherhand put the important issues on the bookshelf and twiddle their thumbs until the die and have not experienced the individual or importance of life whatso ever. All I can say to you, is that you should care either way, get off your lazy butt and start thinking." i agree that it is not something to be ignored. what i am saying (and maybe this came across badly) is that in general i just find that these forums have driven people to two very distinct sides of the divide on an extremely tricky issue. in a sense my agnosticism (which leans towards theism in any case) postpones what i see as a very large jump, be it one way or the other. most of the comments i have read thus far on forums such as these (and sorry to be so general but you know what i mean)seem to be unaware of/ignore the problems inherent in their own reasoning. this is what i meant by the socratic spirit - the search for truth should be the goal of all philosophers, but claiming to know something that you do not is contrary and detrimental to wisdom.
"You shouldn't be angry to hear the truth, if you're lucky enough to find someone to hear it from" - Saul Bellow

Thomistic
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Posted 12/12/06 - 04:54 PM:	#10
zedjones wrote: "I disagree with you with pasion and rationality. Socrates was not a skeptic, he removed people from ignorance, which suggests that there is a truth. In fact he died for the sake of the Truth, looking for it. Agnostics are apathetic towards the meaning of life and their own life, and there isn't anything more miserable or a joke than that. No offence, but a person who does not use reason to search for the Truth is only saying that its hard and I don't want to try. Or rather, I don't want to deal with the truth. Such a concept goes against one's nature, and is ignorant and selfish, contrary to reason. That is why I respect the average athiest because at least they are looking for the truth, with hopfully no agenda. Agnostics on the otherhand put the important issues on the bookshelf and twiddle their thumbs until the die and have not experienced the individual or importance of life whatso ever. All I can say to you, is that you should care either way, get off your lazy butt and start thinking." i agree that it is not something to be ignored. what i am saying (and maybe this came across badly) is that in general i just find that these forums have driven people to two very distinct sides of the divide on an extremely tricky issue. in a sense my agnosticism (which leans towards theism in any case) postpones what i see as a very large jump, be it one way or the other. most of the comments i have read thus far on forums such as these (and sorry to be so general but you know what i mean)seem to be unaware of/ignore the problems inherent in their own reasoning. this is what i meant by the socratic spirit - the search for truth should be the goal of all philosophers, but claiming to know something that you do not is contrary and detrimental to wisdom. Agreed, however, you can know things, according to both Plato/Socrates and Aristotle. I tend to side with aristotle, he seems most moderate. But really we are arguing epistimologies here! The true philosopher looks for truth, and you my friend appear to be him. If you search for Truth, I'd argue that in some indirect way you are searching for God. To search for something also means that you believe it exists, does a man search for a son he never had?
"Truth Being and Beauty are all the same, but differ in the mind," - Aquinas "You cannot put a price on awesomeness" - Kung Fu Panda

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