"The woman question": Philosophy Forums

Philosophy Forums » Social Sciences » "The woman question" » "The woman question"

"The woman question"
I got a more direct responce.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

"The woman question"

Gaia_Guerrilla
.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 152

Posted 01/07/06 - 12:33 PM: Subject: "The woman question"	#1
I told a feminist friend of mine I'm interested in taking a feminist course. My reason was: "Maybe like Freud, I want to understand women better?" The responce I got was: "Men shouldn't really try to understand women, they should just generally comply." Indeed, the "woman question" wasn't just some passive interest, more than it was a crude invasion of women's freedom. I wouldn't enjoy facing the prospect of "the white person question" so why should we repeat the mistake? Maybe as a male I owe it to just shut the hell up? Surely, this may not be the view of all feminists. Some people might say it's absurd. I expect an argument that anyone preventing you from seeking knowledge is stifling progress. Still, my position is that my responce was wise indeed. What do you think?
Manuel Ulliac. I can't assume that I don't know wheather I'm agnostic.

180 Proof
cult deprogrammer

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Apr 27, 2003
Location: reason's raggedy edge
Total Topics: 74
Total Posts: 4028

Posted 01/07/06 - 02:43 PM: Subject: "You are going to women? Do not forget the whip!"	#2
Gaia_Guerrilla wrote: I told a feminist friend of mine I'm interested in taking a feminist course. My reason was: "Maybe like Freud, I want to understand women better?" The responce I got was: "Men shouldn't really try to understand women, they should just generally comply." she only told you half the story. the male dilemma: either "generally comply" to your woman or serially womanize (aka "mack 'em".) the latter leads in time, if you're lucky, to the former. *generically, a woman values a man (she fancies) according to the degrees of sacrifice* he's willing to make on her behalf. at the very least a man is always a means to some woman's ends.** again, either give her what she wants (how and/or when she wants it) or tell her what she wants to hear (while playing her "maybe" off another woman's "yes") until you get what you want from her, then move on to your next mark (repeat & rinse ad infinitum/nauseam).
If faith is irrational, then it is rational to dismiss "faith-based claims" out of hand. If faith is rational, then "faith-based claims" must be testable and/or sound -- but they are neither. If faith is a-rational, then "faith-based claims" are inexplicable and thus cannot explain anything.

Floyd
Cool

Usergroup: Sponsors
Joined: Dec 16, 2003
Total Topics: 31
Total Posts: 1964

Last Blog: Women’s Pay Key to Child Poverty

Posted 01/07/06 - 04:28 PM:	#3
180 Proof wrote: generically, a woman values a man (she fancies) according to the degrees of sacrifice he's willing to make on her behalf. at the very least a man is always a means to some woman's ends I find that women usually value men more by the less he'll do for her; they see his lack of the-need-to-be-accepted as manly. Although they usually like to keep the submissive ones around for obvious selfish reasons. Gaia_Guerrilla wrote: Still, my position is that my responce was wise indeed. What do you think? If learning and studying what you don't know isn't wise, then I don't want to be wise. -Floyd
Short and to the point. \| Online Philosophy Club \| Book & Reading Forums \| My Philosophy Articles "Only the descent into the hell of self-knowledge can pave the way to godliness." ~Immanuel Kant

Gaia_Guerrilla
.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 152

Posted 01/07/06 - 04:31 PM:	#4
(a, 180 proof): either give her what she wants (how and/or when she wants it) or tell her what she wants to hear (while playing her "maybe" off another woman's "yes") until you get what you want from her, then move on to your next mark (repeat & rinse ad infinitum/nauseam). (/a) EXCELLENT, 180! This'll become my standard dating policy for now.
Manuel Ulliac. I can't assume that I don't know wheather I'm agnostic.

Petunia
silent muse

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jul 24, 2005
Location: Cold North, brrrrrrr
Total Topics: 7
Total Posts: 164

Posted 01/07/06 - 05:19 PM:	#5
180 Proof wrote: *generically, a woman values a man (she fancies) according to the degrees of sacrifice* he's willing to make on her behalf. at the very least a man is always a means to some woman's ends.** Spend some time volunteering in a battered women's shelter, and you may gain a more balanced perspective. It is worth noting that essentially EVERY person, who violates and uses other people, feels completely justified in doing so. To develop prejudicial thinking towards women as justification for mistreating and using them is one example of the thinking process that justifies such acts of selfishness and violation. The women who do mistreat men have gone through this same process to justify their actions. Edited by Petunia on 01/07/06 - 05:30 PM
Peer over the precipice

NeonQwerty
Endorses drug use

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Total Topics: 6
Total Posts: 152

Posted 01/07/06 - 05:54 PM:	#6
Well, first off, anyone who says that I should not try to understand a given topic gets a big facefull of my laughter. Second, maybe what your friend was getting at is that given the following possibilities, the latter is much more likely than the former: i)you get a good understanding of women's issues ii)you get a superficial understanding of women's issues, and arrogantly assume that you know what their issues are and what it is like to experience the world as a woman Although I am Arabic by descent, I'm a white man for all intents and purposes. I can read up on, say, American black culture, I can really wonder what their issues are, and if I'm very, very diligent and sensitive, I might get some decent feeling as to what it means to black man in the USA, an experience that I'm sure is fraught with contradictory impulses of solidarity and desires for individuation. If I were to take a course on Black History in America and told a black friend about it, I would understand why he might bristle if he interprets what I'm saying as "Look, the entire range of your issues can be condensed into a thirty hour class that is easily mastered in my spare time." Now, that might not have been my intention, but since I'm dealing with issues that are sensitive to my friend's identity, I need to be aware of the need to phrase my intentions in a respectful way. Also, the fact is that men and women are still viewed in an asymmetrical way. If you're going to argue that that is not the case, let's at least agree that women perceive it to be the case. Given that, it's understandable that a group would be suspicious when the socially dominant group attempts to appropriate their culture, especially when that culture and its issues are often a direct result of the power relations between it and the dominant group. Third, "Men shouldn't really try to understand women, they should just generally comply." should be read to me again after I ingest a poisonous substance and need to induce vomiting. It's not funny, it's not cute. At best, it's just really lame, like jokes about airplace peanuts. Fourth, to touch on the eternal "What do women want?" question, I'll just opine that the people that you attract and keep in your life are pretty much direct and indirect consequences of your mindset. A few technicalities aside, you can be an exceptionally nice person that is loving and cares for others and still get plenty of tail, or even a fulfilling relationship. EDIT: typo Edited by NeonQwerty on 01/07/06 - 07:38 PM
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot Nothing's going to get better. It's not." Dr. Seuss

BloqHead
Imaginary

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Mar 18, 2003
Location: I live in a bloq.
Total Topics: 1
Total Posts: 1

Posted 01/07/06 - 06:58 PM:	#7
NeonQwerty wrote: i)you get a good understanding of women's issues ii)you get a superficial understanding of women's issues, and arrogantly assume that you know what their issues are and what it is like to experience the world as a woman That second option is the general fear many of us target groups have. Nothing says false sympathy to me better than a white woman trying to "remind" me of my disadvantages in society as a woman of color Third, "Men shouldn't really try to understand women, they should just generally comply." should be read to me again after I ingest a poisonous substance and need to induce vomiting. Yes, that wasn't necessary at all. It's jokes like that which make people confuse "feminism" with "pro-woman, anti-male". Petunia wrote: Spend some time volunteering in a battered women's shelter, and you may gain a more balanced perspective. Agreed!! A radical change in experience and situation might help you see things in a different light -- but who would have thought ?! -b

Gaia_Guerrilla
.

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Total Topics: 28
Total Posts: 152

1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 01/07/06 - 07:36 PM:	#8
(a, petunia): Spend some time volunteering in a battered women's shelter (/a) I plan on making this a regular event, actually, visiting women at the local prison. Even acting as messenger for them between delightful forums like this one and their own statements. I also live in one. A family (not my own, currently) struggling free from domestic violence. I'm also interested in what's considered so in the eyes of the law. But I can understand their apprehension to male volunteers. Just FYI Petunia, your comment touches on keys to my title.
Manuel Ulliac. I can't assume that I don't know wheather I'm agnostic.

hateloveschool
In the process of dying

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Location: The middle of a cornfield
Total Topics: 5
Total Posts: 218

Last Blog:

Posted 01/07/06 - 09:03 PM:	#9
Why should men just give women what they want? Why can't men at least try to understand women? I make attempts to understand women, but I always fail, but at least I sometimes get a glimpse of how they work, kind of. It seems as though it would be for the women's interest for men to try to understand them so they can better deal with their needs...
Please don't hurt me.

Salimis
King Among Men

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 18, 2005
Location: California
Total Topics: 14
Total Posts: 144

Posted 01/08/06 - 12:44 AM:	#10
Did you ever think of asking your feminist friend why she thinks that? make her qualify and her own statement, rather than fleeing to the internet with your tail between your legs. more likely than not she will tell you that it was a joke, and that you should relax. however, if she was serious, and refuses to tell you why....then don't waste any more time on the discussion, and, just to irritate her, spend a lot of time learning how to understand women, and use that knowledge to help you learn how to seduce them, than seduce women that she percieves as more attractive than her...then, while she scolds you, you can just smile and say, "I know you're upset about this, but I'm sure that one day you'll meet a nice man who will always comply with you" then get up and walk away.... AHAHAHA REVENGE OF THE FRIEND OF THE FEMINIST but what do I know, I'm just trying to reverse the emasculation of the modern man. and your responce was not wise, it was you complying with her.
Rebellion is the first sign of autonomy. The world is never quiet, even its silence eternally resounds with the same notes, in vibrations which escape our ears. As for those that we perceive, they carry sounds to us, occasionally a chord, never a melody. Albert Camus

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

You don't have permission to post.

Please login or register.