The Difference between materialism and empiricism?: Philosophy Forums

The Difference between materialism and empiricism?

sheps
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Posted 10/31/09 - 05:21 PM: Subject: The Difference between materialism and empiricism?	#1
A quick one: I get that materialism is the believe in the prevalence of matter over thought, but how is this different to empiricism? Is materialism the idea that our physical actions make things happen, whereas empiricism is the belief that we can merely observe these things happening, and do nothing to change them? Do Marxists reject empiricism because of this, as it is a theory which downplays the role of humans in changing the world? In essence, I just need to know a one line difference between materialism and empiricism.
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Hamandcheese
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Posted 10/31/09 - 05:50 PM:	#2
As a materialist I think every thing is made of matter, akin to naturalism. If someone claims, say, that a statue of mary cried a tear, the materialist would point out that the substance that the rock is made out of is all it is, and is no different then the rock before it was extracted from the earth, only that its been shaped. Thus materialism is an important premise for my deductive and inductive reasoning. Empiricism is the statement that everything that we know we know through our direct senses, or some other aided observation (an empricist would be fine with a microscope). Traditionally empiricists reject the idea of innate ideas, being entirely skeptical that intutions and instinct could reliably inform our knowledge. So the difference is pretty substantial. There are plenty of materialists who are not strict empiricists; that is they think only matter exists, but that some truth is innate in our brain and certain facts can be determined through intuitive reasoning. Empiricists, on the other hand, don't necessarily have to believe that all that exists is matter. Indeed, George Berkeley is famous for being both a strong empiricist and 'immaterialist'.
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stax
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Posted 10/31/09 - 08:09 PM:	#3
sheps wrote: Do Marxists reject empiricism because of this, as it is a theory which downplays the role of humans in changing the world? I, from reading Marx, would say no. Simply because they believe that power comes through material accumulation, and one needs to have a way of garnering knowledge to create action. Although their lumping of the proletariat and bourgeoisie is very a priori, but it wasn't made without some observation to create the generalisations.
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Kelby
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Posted 10/31/09 - 09:42 PM:	#4
empiricism tends to be an epistemological position while materialism is a metaphysical one. Sometimes one entails the other, but not always.

sheps
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Posted 11/04/09 - 08:58 AM:	#5
Thanks guys. I was a little muddled in my thinking - its key to what I'm reading at the moment that one can reject the metaphysical concept of 'matter' and still be an empiricist. I was getting confused between the scientific and philosophical definitions of empiricism.
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DonVoghano
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Posted 11/04/09 - 12:57 PM:	#6
Matter of fact in the light of quantum physics an empiricist pretty much has to reject the metaphysical concept of matter...

sheps
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Posted 11/04/09 - 01:29 PM:	#7
DonVoghano wrote: Matter of fact in the light of quantum physics an empiricist pretty much has to reject the metaphysical concept of matter... Hence why Marxists have claimed that quantam physics reflects and adheres to dialectics; matter hasn't ceased to exist, it has merely changed or adpated another form.
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Ghosthack
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Posted 11/04/09 - 02:46 PM:	#8
The difference between empiricism and materialism has been adequately stated above. I just want to add a few things. There are strict materialists but no real strict empiricists. Empiricism is really a blanket term that is used to partition thinkers into unacceptable and acceptable categories. It's a tool of rhetoric. Those whom you agree/disagree with are called empiricists. Empiricism is at its root a disdain for speculative reason and a liking of practical reason. DonVoghano wrote: Matter of fact in the light of quantum physics an empiricist pretty much has to reject the metaphysical concept of matter... I don't see why this is so. There doesn't seem to be anything to shake the belief in materialism, hence its meaningless. Materialism, like empiricism, is just a term used to express disapproval/approval with someone elses opinion. Marxists like empiricism because they like practical reason and the application of Reason to History. All Marxists care about is praxis and how to apply whatever they know to establish a communist society. They don't really care about anything else and that's why they dislike speculative reason and any idle thought.

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