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It is raining

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It is raining

unenlightened
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Posted 10/29/09 - 07:29 AM:	#11
Banno wrote: Another brief question, with perhaps interesting implications. What is the subject in the sentence "it is raining"? I put it to you that there is none. Does anyone agree? Who disagrees, and if so, what do you think the subject is? The sentence tells you what the subject is - it is raining; 'it' is 'raining'; 'it' 'is' 'raining'. When I say, "I am unenlightened", it doesn't take a genius to work out the subject of the sentence, because in case you didn't know, the sentence tells you. Raining Raining Raining is the subject of the sentence.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

rigelrover
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Posted 10/29/09 - 07:35 AM:	#12
'The rain' is raining. That is what 'it' means in this phrase.
I am more interested in questions than answers; dialog than dictation. If we can reasonably believe that there is not just a breach, but a fundamentally unclosable gap between the individual mind and the ultimate nature of the reality; the primordial thing in itself, then 'true' mystery does exist.

rigelrover
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Posted 10/29/09 - 07:41 AM:	#13
Whoops, un-e beat me to the punch.
I am more interested in questions than answers; dialog than dictation. If we can reasonably believe that there is not just a breach, but a fundamentally unclosable gap between the individual mind and the ultimate nature of the reality; the primordial thing in itself, then 'true' mystery does exist.

Cheshire
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Posted 10/29/09 - 08:11 AM:	#14
rigelrover wrote: 'The rain' is raining. That is what 'it' means in this phrase. Nah, he could say "It is raining frogs". In which case "it" can not be rain, because there is no rain. It is cloudy. It is sunny. It is raining. It is the state of affairs or it is the condition of the natural world. Edited by Cheshire on 10/29/09 - 08:19 AM
Or not.

Willowz
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Posted 10/29/09 - 08:17 AM:	#15
That's why the representation of the situation depends on the person who speaks it in the first place. "Is", is not the subject, but it comes pretty close. So I guess it's "it is".
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Incision
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Posted 10/29/09 - 09:18 AM:	#16
"It" is the subject of "it is raining." This is, of course, a dummy subject; it does not refer. How best to translate this sentence into FOPL depends on what inferences we want to make, but as a suggestion, try "rain precipitates": "(Ex) (Rx & Px)." I'd say there are lots of sentences whose surface grammatical form is not their logical form. "Nothing exists" doesn't mean that there is a "nothing"; "I didn't say nothing," despite being a double negative, doesn't necessarily mean "I did say something."

Hanover
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Posted 10/29/09 - 10:12 AM:	#17
The sentence "it is raining" is in the passive voice, putting the emphasis on the action of what is being performed as opposed to the subject. By speaking in the passive voice, you always obscure the true subject, which is why it's generally better to write in the active voice. The sentence "My bike was stolen" or "The letter was written" is of the same general form. The subject is clear in these two sentences, but the question remains, "who stole your bike" and "who wrote the letter"? To make the sentences active, you would write, "The burglar stole my bike" or "The man wrote the letter." You will note that the subject and direct object change places from active to passive. Of course, we had to guess who wrote the letter and who stole the bike in the passive examples because the passive voice is silent to that question, but a prepositional phrase could clairfy the issue. For example, consider the example: "The letter was written by the man" ("by the man" being a prepositional phrase). That sentence would easily translate into the sentence "The man wrote the letter." So, now taking your example, "It is raining," could be re-written in the active voice, but we don't know what is raining because you never know who or what is doing the action in a passive sentence. If you changed the sentence by adding a prepositional phrase, we could avoid guessing. So, perhaps you mean "It is raining from the clouds." The active voice would then be written "The clouds are raining." Now we know: "it" means "clouds."
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xzJoel
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Posted 10/29/09 - 11:06 AM:	#18
Banno wrote: Another brief question, with perhaps interesting implications. What is the subject in the sentence "it is raining"? I put it to you that there is none. Does anyone agree? Who disagrees, and if so, what do you think the subject is? Non-referential indexicals, Banno? Is an assault upon the Cogito to follow? P.S. The subject is "it". "It" refers to no thing. The subject does not exist. As some have already said, an action (or process) can occur without an actor. Rain is one such process. Edited by xzJoel on 10/29/09 - 11:14 AM
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Banno
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Posted 10/29/09 - 11:59 AM:	#19
Willowz wrote: I don't believe it is raining. Then what do you think it is doing?
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

Banno
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Posted 10/29/09 - 12:11 PM:	#20
When faced with "it is raining", it is just obtuse to ask "what is raining?"; or it indicates a lack of understanding of English. There is no subject in "It is raining". "The rain rains" is a fabrication.
Davidson: We make maximum sense of the words and thoughts of others when we interpret in a way that optimizes agreement. Russel Morris: There's a meaning there, but the meaning there doesn't really mean a thing... Ned: Such is life

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