Meaning before defintion: Philosophy Forums

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Meaning before defintion

swamy
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Posted 10/25/09 - 09:10 PM: Subject: Defintion before Meaning	#1
Generally the tendency is to think about the "MEANING" of a word before thinking about the "DEFINITION" of a word. Actually Definition of a word is to be understood first and then the Meaning.

unenlightened
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Posted 10/25/09 - 09:31 PM:	#2
Except that a definition is, by definition, some more words, that need to be understood. It must be a miracle then that anyone understands anything, where a miracle is defined as something that is not understood.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

Desidude666
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Posted 10/25/09 - 10:06 PM:	#3
Defining something would suggest that empirical and material evidence. To define a meaning of something might not necessarily reflect it's material references. In that sense, you need to know the meaning, prior to a definition. You need both, not just one in the end. As such, a meaning reflects definition but needs to be defined before a definition. You can also assess the meaning again after definition, but it comes first - may change after a definition and might reflect a cyclic process in the end, But it should begin with a meaning.
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

Minyun
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Posted 10/25/09 - 10:41 PM:	#4
I wonder if when I was growing up, I knew the meaning of mother before I actually had some sort of definition for it. Meaning, and archetypal traits are first and foremost in our instincts, thus meaning comes before definition. Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't be so weak in responding to claims of ignorance, but then where is my humanity, if I did not?

Shamantrixx
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Posted 10/26/09 - 01:35 AM:	#5
Did you knew the "meaning" of mother, or did you just have a reference for it? What is the meaning of the mother anyway...? Can child possibly answer that question before a certain age of reason?
Everybody experiences far more than he understands. Yet it is experience, rather than understanding, that influences behavior. Marshall McLuhan

Minyun
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Posted 10/26/09 - 01:58 AM:	#6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype In Jung's psychological framework archetypes are innate, universal prototypes for ideas and may be used to interpret observations. A group of memories and interpretations associated with an archetype is a complex, e.g. a mother complex associated with the mother archetype. Jung treated the archetypes as psychological organs, analogous to physical ones in that both are morphological constructs that arose through evolution. Shamantrixx wrote: Did you knew the "meaning" of mother, or did you just have a reference for it? What is the meaning of the mother anyway...? Can child possibly answer that question before a certain age of reason? I knew the meaning of mother, before I was aware of such a word. Obviously a child who is to young to verbalise a definition of mother, cannot prove that he knows the meaning of mother (because it requires tool use in the form of language), however simply because he cannot prove it through definition does not mean that he knows not what mother means. swamy wrote: Actually Definition of a word is to be understood first and then the Meaning. Meaning comes before definition.

Minyun
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Posted 10/26/09 - 02:04 AM:	#7
Why else would language be formed if not for meaning? 1) We have meaning 2) We require a tool to express meaning 3) Communication allowed us to express that meaning (however not efficiently) 4) Definitions arose that easily consolidated communication 5) Allowing people to easily understand eachothers meaning (efficiently... most of the time ) Edited by Minyun on 10/26/09 - 02:14 AM

Klas Wullt
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Posted 10/26/09 - 07:25 AM: Subject: nihiilism.	#8
Meaning comes after definition. Anything else is to live in an little soap bubble.

180 Proof
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Posted 10/26/09 - 10:11 AM:	#9
swamy wrote: Actually Definition of a word is to be understood first and then the Meaning. To recognize a word's meaning is to have some competence with using that word in context (i.e. relevantly). Toddlers do this well before they learn the definitions of words. People learn foreign languages more by grammatical usage than by lexicography. Linguistic observation seems to suggest otherwise, swamy. If meaning did not precede word-definition then word-definition would be unintelligible (i.e. meaningless).
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

Rilx
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Posted 10/26/09 - 11:17 AM:	#10
Definition is an expression of the meaning. Depends on context which one you learn first.
"In the life, there are no solutions. There are forces in motion. Those need to be created, and solutions follow." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery, Night Flight

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