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Hello. Nihilism.

jsawvel
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:22 AM:	#41
"One should NEVER choose their beliefs, one should base it on what appears to be most true." When it comes to values, there is nothing "true" in my opinion. If I value cherry pie, it is not true that cherry pie is the most important thing in the universe, just the most important to me. So, my ethics will be based on this primary value - "though shalt not destroy my cherry pie." However, when it comes to the nature of reality, it is hardly ever good to deceive yourself, because not "knowing" reality will ultimately inhibit you from achieving your values. There are functions of denial though. Mostly denial is used for social reasons. The majority go for "social power" rather than "real power." So, they are constantly having to pretend they are a certain person or they like certain things, so they are in denial about their own feelings, opinions, observations. So, in a social group, denial serves a purpose of social acceptance and manipulation. On the topic of meaning, I go for the existentialist viewpoint that YOU give your life its meaning. Other people try to find some "communal meaning" with perhaps society or god. In the sense of life having meaning based on some higher power, I say no, because no power has shown itself lasting enough to be worthwhile to attach to. I can understand why someone would give up individual meaning if the grand scheme or "plan" seems more secure, but especially in this day and age the foundations of leadership are being shaken, so existentialists are looking to their own leadership and meaning.

theabsenceofdeceit
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Posted 10/27/09 - 05:40 AM:	#42
Just because I'm a nihilist doesn't mean I don't find pleasure in everyday occurrences! The pleasure I receive from living has so far been extremely consistent. I do not believe life is entirely not worth living because it appears to be void of purpose. If life was not worth living I would have killed myself, I would cease to be. But there is pleasure, and that is enough. I suppose it is still worth living on the minor possibility that there is a purpose anyway. Not that I pin my hopes on such a concept, but I'm sure other nihilists would try to justify their existence on this idea. Essentially, (drawing on your existentialism concept) I exist for my own pleasure. Life is not my PURPOSE, it is my entertainment. So I agree with existentialists to an extent, except for the metaphysical concepts associated with 'meaning'.
"every action is a reaction and creates a reaction"

Samuel Locke
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Posted 10/27/09 - 09:30 AM:	#43
Reason is a slave to passion as Worset so eloquently put it. Though you may reason with yourself that life is meaningless you will probably not commit suicide due to the nature of your chemicals not liking this thought.

Nihilism
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Posted 10/28/09 - 06:02 AM:	#44
I love it, the critics have nothing but word play.
To criticize is only to establish that a concept vanishes when it is thrust into a new milieu, losing some of its components, or acquiring others that transform it. But those who criticize without creating, those who are content to defend the vanished concept without being able to give it the forces it needs to return to life, are the plague of philosophy. All those debaters and communicators are inspired by resentment. They speak only for themselves when they set empty generalizations against one another. Philosophy has a horror of discussions. It always has something else to do.

linear_occurance
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Posted 10/28/09 - 02:17 PM:	#45
And I am not sure, But Absenceofdeciet, but isn't your hesitancy to conclude anything more a form of agnosticism? Rather than Nihilism, which has come to the conclusion that there is no point/value to anything? Or, hasn't Nihilism come to some conclusions, while this is the very thing you wish not to do? I hate to put a label on you that you may not agree with, but it seems to me that your beliefs are not necessarily nihilistic. Also, would someone care to explain nihilism itself to me? As any explanation I have been able to extrapolate from the posts has been rather ambiguous, I am under the impression that Nihilism is the theory of the pointlessness of existance, or that existance is an illusion. Like an extreme form of skepticism. Am I correct in this assumption? For if I am, it would seem logically that were you to practice this belief, or philosophy (appologies for using belief, but it would seem that one would need just as much faith to assume pointlessness as one would to assume a goal/value), it would seem that even conversing would be against your doctrines, for then you have placed value upon communication.

linear_occurance
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Posted 10/28/09 - 02:21 PM:	#46
"If life was not worth living I would have killed myself, I would cease to be. But there is pleasure, and that is enough." -Absenceofdeceit Isn't this placing value upon somthing? Inherently non-nihilistic?

Nihilism
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Posted 10/28/09 - 03:16 PM:	#47
linear_occurance wrote: "If life was not worth living I would have killed myself, I would cease to be. But there is pleasure, and that is enough." -Absenceofdeceit Isn't this placing value upon somthing? Inherently non-nihilistic? That is a subjective personal preference, its a characteristic fact describing what he prefers. It is not binding any objective value to the statement.
To criticize is only to establish that a concept vanishes when it is thrust into a new milieu, losing some of its components, or acquiring others that transform it. But those who criticize without creating, those who are content to defend the vanished concept without being able to give it the forces it needs to return to life, are the plague of philosophy. All those debaters and communicators are inspired by resentment. They speak only for themselves when they set empty generalizations against one another. Philosophy has a horror of discussions. It always has something else to do.

linear_occurance
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Posted 10/28/09 - 07:18 PM:	#48
Then isn't that ascribing value to preference? At some point you have to agree that you value something, for if you didn't, as stated above, there would be no point to life. Does it matter that it is a personaly oriented and perhaps even a manufactured value (in that it is not inherent)? It is still value placed upon an activity or object, thus transgressing nihilism, which is in opposition to this, no (be it personal or otherwise)?

swstephe
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Posted 10/29/09 - 12:12 AM:	#49
From the description, it looks like "abscenceofdeceit" is a "hedonist", (a school of philosophy which argues that pleasure has an ultimate importance and is the most important pursuit of humanity). Does this mean the claim to be a nihilist is deceitful? Well, at least it is an admission that all values are subjective and arbitrary, but implementing any value system as justified shifts into a form of existentialism.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

theabsenceofdeceit
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Posted 10/29/09 - 04:33 AM:	#50
My own pleasure is of no real importance, I don't believe it entails any such greater purpose or necessity. It is not our 'meaning in life' to obtain pleasure. It is simply an enjoyable event. Nothing is of importance, my pleasure, my experience, ethics, survival, health, death, life. It all still adds to naught. But it still is. And pleasure still occurs. I am human and as a human I am motivated to seek pleasure. Nihilist or not I am a complex organism, a human being and I am still motivated to achieve all the tedious and meaningless goals complex organisms set out to achieve. It is defined within the physical structure of my brain. meaningless or otherwise I cannot escape my humanity.
"every action is a reaction and creates a reaction"

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