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Subjectivity of Time
Can the mind control how we percieve time?

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Subjectivity of Time

mpoissant17
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Posted 09/15/09 - 04:22 PM: Subject: Subjectivity of Time	#1
Can time be considered subjective? That is to say does your brain influence how we percieve time? Their are multiple everyday examples. Doesn't 5 hrs in boredom or anticipation seem longer than 5 hrs doing someting you enjoy? Perhaps it is because when we are bored or are anticipating some event we focus our attention on the time and with focused attention comes greater perception to details. Such as if we focus our sight we percieve greater details of an image, with time we would better percieve its details (i.e. minutes, seconds, miliseconds etc.).Does this mean our sense of time is merely a perception as our other 5 senses are? This would then explain the phenomena that occurs when dreaming. I am sure most everyone has experienced a dream that seemed to last longer than the length of time you were asleep. I myself have experienced a dream that seemed to last a week. If time simply is only a perception as our sight and hearing is then wouldn't dreams be able to mold that to? Dreams create and mold sights, sounds etc. so it would make sense that is would also mold the perception of time. But the question remains what in the mind/brain would collect and/or process time as our eyes do for sight and our ears do for hearing?
"Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality." Bertrand Russell

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 09/15/09 - 05:10 PM:	#2
Time endures due to the waiting through an event. The mental question then becomes who is waiting on what?
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 09/15/09 - 05:30 PM:	#3
Newtonian mechanics takes a subjective clock along for the ride assuming it ticks regularily.
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

mway
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Posted 09/15/09 - 07:12 PM:	#4
mpoissant17 wrote: But the question remains what in the mind/brain would collect and/or process time as our eyes do for sight and our ears do for hearing? The brain functions as a pattern classifier over time. This works by refining synaptic connections based upon the timing correlations of other action potentials. So to answer your question, the entire brain is the time processor, whilst the standard sensory organs input and output spacial patterns.
Lame is to Wav, as the Brain is to Reality.

mayor of simpleton
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Posted 09/15/09 - 11:52 PM:	#5
Time can be considered subjective; that is when regarding the "perception of time". Time itself would be what it is time. Nothing more and nothing less, void of qualitative values. Extentions into time, such as the past and the future, are placed into a context of perception by the one who perceives them. These are not where one "is", but rather speculation upon where one "was" or "might be". This immediately places a limited perception and a limitation of time would make its perception subjective. Limitation of any concept or thing makes it subjective. Time in context of the present is a bit difficult to pin down. Where is "now"? What time is "now"? What is the essence of "now"? "Here" and "is" are fleeting "momentless moments" that are shorter than moments. Qualities of long or short or fast or slow do not apply. One cannot catagorize "now". The "now" has no perceptions. The present is objective as one cannot bring a perspective to it. Now is the time standing outside of time. Now is objective. There cannot be "have been" (past reflection) and "or will be" (future speculation) conditions placed upon "now", or simply put; "now" is then not "now". These are all before or after the fact. Perhaps "now" is "timeless time", in that it has potential for everything, but in itself is nothing; void of all qualification and limitations. "Now" is. When more is brought to it, it is no longer is, it is something else. I have to go now. (strange statement) Meow! GREG
I am not one to attribute that which I cannot understand immediately to be god(s)-perhaps I will never understand, but god(s) are not defined by my lack of understanding-this is the foundation of dogmas, the pressing of connotative values into the realm of dennotative meaning. - MOS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIYJERcdHb0 Jerry Sings!

Jean Francoise
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Posted 09/16/09 - 12:51 AM:	#6
Some of my somewhat pseudophilosophical ruminations on the topic: http://mariuszessays.blogspot.com/2009/08/life.html
Emptiness whispers in riddles.

Cheshire
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Posted 09/16/09 - 08:11 AM:	#7
In regards to Time; Well, there is social time. The standard time we adhere to in order to be productive and work together. So, I guess you could call this post industrial time. A close second would be perception of time. The general ability of humans to notice change happening and to apply this change as a rate. Having said that -I think actual time can be quite a different beast; Actual time is the result of the stability of a physical system. The amount of potential change a system exhibits defines its time. So, instead of a rate of change, I would say a measure of stability. I see chaos as being defined as having no limit of change or greatest possible instability. These are my best guesses, if anyone has figured this out, I'd like to know more.
Or not.

Cadrache
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Posted 09/16/09 - 02:27 PM:	#8
That would imply that observation alters Force itself. In other words, I could be standing in the middle of the road with a vehicle heading towards me. Normally - I would be dead. However - if I have enough people looking at the vehicle from the side; you should be able to note an observable change in direction of the vehicle.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Cadrache
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Posted 09/16/09 - 02:31 PM:	#9
Mmm... an actual do-able experiment would be to use a pendulum, a live camera, and hijacking some 500k thousand tvs. After testing for alteration in the swing of the pendulum with no observers beyond recording equipment - we can see if there is a change when we have 500,000 viewers see it all at once. Sigh... I should go back to real work.
"...There was a writer who asked why it was that when we find positive experiences we say that only the physical facts are real, but in negative experiences we believe that reality is subjective. He made an example of those who say that in birth only the pain is real, the joy a subjective point of view, but that in death it is the emotional loss that is the reality." - Tony Ballantyne, Recursion. _____________________________________________ Truth is want. - The internal state of matters. Truth is Need. - The external state of affairs.

Aetixintro
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Posted 09/16/09 - 03:48 PM:	#10
I have also been looking at time here: http://www.t-lea.net/Time.html. I find time to be both objective and subjective. Time moves on relentlessly and unstoppable. Time is thus making events continuously history, but we, ourselves, can make use of this time, effectively, making a lot of work, ineffectively, drinking beer and watching sports. In this subjective experience we shouldn't forget the psychological factors that the OP mentions, I believe one factor to be the current speed of the brain (I.Q.?). So the subjective time is probably constantly in change, perhaps also in correlation with the biological clock. Perhaps old people experience time differently than when they are young. It's always a classic to mention McTaggart. To this, I find the two series to be non-contradictory, but subjective time is probably rightfully subsumed under objective time. You will not get younger! Cheers!
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

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