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Hurt
Is it really so bad?

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Hurt
Mozart
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Posted 09/03/09 - 08:43 PM:
Subject: Hurt 		quote post
#1
I'll abbreviate my story so it's not such an eyesore.

I liked a girl. I thought she liked me. She ended up with another guy. I was left broken.
I went through an very rough time, complete with extreme mood shifts.
Then, I started to change. I did research on depression and the like. I came across subjects such as "positive psychology." I got back into martial arts training.
I had a deeper insight of myself and life. I had more confidence than ever before. I adapted. I remolded myself into an exponentially greater person.

So, questions are: Does getting emotionally hurt lead you to levels you would never otherwise achieve?
If so, is it counter-productive to put yourself in harms way for this sole purpose?
NikAngelo
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Posted 09/03/09 - 09:02 PM:
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#2
Mozart wrote:
Does getting emotionally hurt lead you to levels you would never otherwise achieve?
If so, is it counter-productive to put yourself in harms way for this sole purpose?


Ooh, very interesting. Kind of an unorthodox pretext for a philosophy question, but I guess that's where true "love of knowledge" comes from, a question about life needing an answer.


I went through roughly what you did. It was my first relationship; I was young, naive, and I loved this girl unconditionally. She ends it after an amazing seven months, and I have been forever changed.

Yes. Leaving a comfort zone, be it through emotional distress or simply experiencing new stimuli and situations with a passive approach, grows and strengthens an individual. I will be forever grateful that she broke up with me for I am now what I wasn't before, a philosopher.


As to whether or not human beings should subject themselves to "hurt" for the attainment of knowledge... Knowledge is pain. The knowledge of the breakup and the implications of such caused the pain you and I felt. And we emerge stronger. If one has a truly philosophical and epistemological mind, they will willingly put their emotions at risk to gather knowledge. The antithesis of this is comfort-based religion, as it is plain to see.


Knowledge = pain
Knowledge > pain
Knowledge > comfort

Comfort =/= pain
Comfort =/= knowledge


Just don't go killing yourself to find out whether or not there's a God. wink
I am the God of my universe

"See? Life has no apples!" --Mawpe (Thanks for the laugh)
Uncertainty Principl
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Posted 09/03/09 - 09:10 PM:
Subject: Hurt 		quote post
#3
Of course, it seems to defy the laws of reason to want to hurt yourself, but why? It is important to remember that hurtful situations only result in obtaining some better understanding of a situation if you previously adhered to a falacious system of logic regarding that situation.

In the subject line for your post, you ask whether pain is really all that bad. It seems the more one deifies one's own existence the more painful circumstances will hurt. It is interesting to observe how different people respond to similar levels of pain. Some will insist that it is unbarable while others will not even mention it. I think this is evidence for my belief that the degree of pain caused by a situation is largely determined by the degree to which you imagine yourself on an imaginary pedestal in society. Speaking strictly of the intellect, pride is declaring oneself to be wise when he really isn't.

So now we have to introduce another variable into the discussion: are we to seek a better existence or are we to attempt to think of ourselves as the lowliest creatures while attempting to avoid experiencing any pain? I think the cities we have built, the technological innovations we have made, the music we have written, and the list goes on and on, vastly outweighs the benefit of seeking a deprived life.
DrifterOfTheSun
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Posted 09/03/09 - 11:37 PM:
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#4
“What doesn’t kill me only makes me stronger.” – Nietzsche.

Edited by unenlightened on 09/04/09 - 03:38 AM. Reason: punctuation
Before starting an argument, do some research, it might be proven it is right/wrong
welkin rogue
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Posted 09/04/09 - 12:54 AM:
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I think it's true that people generally expand their mind more in suffering than in joy. I certainly have. Perhaps this is because depression yeilds more rational thinking than elevation. There is evolutionary reason for this. It is a mechanism for adapting to new situations. But there is knowledge and truth to be found in both the positive and negative I believe.
Uncertainty Principl
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Posted 09/04/09 - 04:26 AM:
Subject: Hurt 		quote post
#6
Welkin Rogue wrote:
"I think it's true that people generally expand their mind more in suffering than in joy. I certainly have. Perhaps this is because depression yeilds more rational thinking than elevation. There is evolutionary reason for this. It is a mechanism for adapting to new situations. But there is knowledge and truth to be found in both the positive and negative I believe."

What if the painful situation resulted from your attempts to do something good and you did not lack any understanding regarding the situation? If someone does not lack any understanding regarding a situation, then the only possible benefit that can be received through pain is a hardening of his emotions. Is this really necessary or all that important?
welkin rogue
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Posted 09/04/09 - 05:50 AM:
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#7
Note that I said 'generally' - I don't think its necissarily true that negative experiences always deepen knowledge the most.

I suppose at the most basic level *all* experience contributes to our knowledge of the universe, for the simple reason that all experience is a tiny part of the universe. In addition, the hardening of emotions may bring about changes in personality which tend one towards different insights.

In the end it's about 'opportunity cost' - the experiences you forgoe to achieve some insights occlude others.
Phillip Nero
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Posted 09/04/09 - 09:50 AM:
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#8
I have learned that stress comes in two flavors: a hurt or a loss (or both of course, as with a divorce). The only two causes of anger are a 'hurt' from outside of us and low well-being (nurturing) from the inside; anxiety too has only two sources- a loss from the outside and low confidence from the inside. Our negative emotions comprise a range with anger/sadness (they are the same thing) on one end and anxiety on the other; positive emotions fall in a range as well, with well-being on one end and confidence on the other.

So anger has two causes: a hurt (outside) and low well-being (inside). There are three things you can do with anger; being passive, or making NO decision on the emotion, which causes something we all know of, depression (which is anger NOT acted upon- no decision on the anger); being destructive, which causes more aggression to dump it on someone else; or being constructive, which means going out in the world and getting your own needs meet for yourself. The constructive cure for anger is the third course of action: go out there and get your needs met constructively.

Anxiety follows a tripartite form: being composed of only two sources (loss and low confidence), there are three things you can do. Be passive, which creates impulsiveness; being destructive, which is masochistic or victim-thinking; or being constructive, which is also known as courage. Courage can be had quite simply by doing the right thing in the face of fear.

How do we turn anxiety into its positive? By being assertive.

How do we turn anger into its positive? By being courageous (but not foolhardy).

Please excuse the background information, but I feel it's required to share what I had learned in order to provide an adequate answer. Getting emotionally hurt could lead to "new levels" if acted upon constructively. Is it counter-productive to put yourself in harms way for this sole purpose? I would say it's not in so far as you're not foolhardy; i.e. that in achieving "new levels" you do the constructive thing.

John Nash and his Nash equilibrium put out the theory that humans are always either win/lose or win/win. Be win/win with your emotions and decisions, and you'll benefit every time 100%.

Mozart
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Posted 09/04/09 - 11:33 AM:
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#9
Good insight. Thank you, everyone.

Pain = discomfort, and we grow when we exit our comfort zone.
The ability to overcome adversity. Is that all it is?

The reason I bring up this subject is because I'm thinking about getting involved with someone whom I can't have a lasting relationship with. FYI, I'm the type of person who could fall for someone very easily and would then be devistated by the certain demise.
So, knowing full well that I may be crushed, should I do it for the sake of experience and a chance to overcome adversity?
Phillip Nero
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Posted 09/04/09 - 01:23 PM:
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#10
As these questions are of a personal nature, the best solutions I have for them come from my personal experience directly; I know of no other way to satisfy them, as giving you the theory behind it simply will not do. And my previous post is not abstract in the least but rather demonstrates how to practically turn the negative (emotional) range into the positive one.

If my mentor were writing this, he would make the following claims:

> Go for the character first; learn to say 'no' and be comfortable hearing 'no.
> Have preferences; if something is not to your liking, say it, feel it, mean it.
> You have 100% control of what is inside you, but you have 0% control of everything outside you.
> Secure your self (psyche) by having preferences.
> Suffering is trying or wishing to control that which is uncontrollable; everything outside of you is uncontrollable- the weather, the economy, the company, the girlfriend, etc. What happens when you suffer? You expend your fuel (emotional range) for no good reason AND on something that wastes it. No good.

Do you want to be in a relationship that will not last? Do you want to be someone that can fall very easily and be shot down in flames (i.e. suffering, or burning emotional energy for no good reason)? What are your preferences?

Do not be emotionally attached to an outcome, especially outcomes involving humans. And I would say that your last question is curious: to suffer for the sake of experience and overcoming adversity would simply result in a lack of freedom (freedom is excellent decision-making power). I mean to say that problems stemming from bad decisions are derived from two sorts- lack of conscience and lack of intuition- which create a feeling of being trapped. So, with your course, it would be as if some of your freedom is taken away. What is conscience (which looks in)? An inner sense of knowing whether your motives are win/win or win/lose. What is intuition (which looks out)? An inner sense of knowing whether your environments are win/win (constructive) or win/lose (destructive). Take a hard look. Top-heavy on conscience is a mama's boy, or martyr; top-heavy on intuition is being a shark, like Michael Douglas in the film 'Wall Street'. Shoot for the mean (thanks Aristotle).

Experience (street-smarts, if you will) is gained by living, traveling, learning, reading, viewing or starting arts, cooking, etc- not by suffering, although it would occur indirectly if you suffer well enough to learn from it (if you have the observation to learn from it). Be creative or a little more flexible with life, but not too flexible. Left-brain stuff is not flexible; right-brain stuff is too flexible. Shoot for the mean (called wisdom).
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