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Happiness vs. other Ideas/Goods
Is happiness the only good? Are there others? Or are the others only related?

Happiness vs. other Ideas/Goods

voyaging
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Posted 08/27/09 - 09:18 PM: Subject: Happiness vs. other Ideas/Goods	#1
Many, if not most, philosophers believe happiness to be the greatest good. Throughout history this has been a very common theme. At the same time, some other Great Ideas, such as Justice, are also frequently talked about. Most believe that Democracy is the most just form of government, for reasons I won't elaborate on here. My question is: if happiness is the greatest good, what need do we have for justice? Is happiness not the only end we should strive for? Are justice and other goods, such as freedom, also important to strive for as ends in themselves? Or is it impossible to reach a higher level of happiness WITHOUT something such as justice? For example, suppose if the US went from a democracy to a dictatorship. However, the dictatorship results in higher happiness levels for all citizens. Would this be a wise choice? Or is justice necessary for true happiness? Or is justice good in and of itself?
A witty saying proves nothing.

bert1
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Posted 08/27/09 - 09:44 PM:	#2
I think happiness may be ill-conceived as an end. Happiness is what we feel when we function well and achieve the ends we set for ourselves. Happiness itself is not the end pursued. Development towards increased function might be the greatest good, both individually and co-operatively with others.
"Like a ungroomed dog in which the desired look is it’s long hair but it has been so unattended to, that combing is impractical, and it might be better if the hair was cut and attended to as it grows back." d_martin

swstephe
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Posted 08/27/09 - 11:22 PM:	#3
I guess happiness always trumps other values. A situation which isn't just is still acceptable as long as all the parties are happy. I live in a tiny dictatorship where the citizens are generally more happy than most democracies, because the country is wealthy enough to offer most public services for free, eliminate taxation and the leader seems sincerely concerned with the welfare of the citizens. I think it exposes a psychological bias. Humans are driven by instincts that probably evolved close to "game theory". We cooperate, (fairness, justice, ideals, society), to maintain equilibrium, but cheat as soon as the opportunity arises. Happiness is the great motivator for human action, and once you satisfy it, people would rather "cheat", (not rock the boat as it were), to maintain this status quo. It is a kind of rational objectivism that is at the core, but not acknowledged, weighting of human values.
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

Aceedwin
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Posted 08/27/09 - 11:33 PM:	#4
In my view, happiness is like bonus points on a video game. Sure, they're nice to have, but inevitably, they have little to do with winning the game. In the same way, happiness, while very nice on its own, should be confined to being a bonus, requiring skilful play, and extra time. Interestingly, is a person automatically happy when achieving his/her goals?
Some people enjoy finding answers, but I dislike losing questions.

slap
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Posted 08/28/09 - 01:02 PM:	#5
voyaging wrote: Many, if not most, philosophers believe happiness to be the greatest good. Throughout history this has been a very common theme. At the same time, some other Great Ideas, such as Justice, are also frequently talked about. Most believe that Democracy is the most just form of government, for reasons I won't elaborate on here. My question is: if happiness is the greatest good, what need do we have for justice? Is happiness not the only end we should strive for? Are justice and other goods, such as freedom, also important to strive for as ends in themselves? Or is it impossible to reach a higher level of happiness WITHOUT something such as justice? For example, suppose if the US went from a democracy to a dictatorship. However, the dictatorship results in higher happiness levels for all citizens. Would this be a wise choice? Or is justice necessary for true happiness? Or is justice good in and of itself? I would bite that last bullet and say yes, a dictatorship that made humanity as a whole happier would be better. Mill tells us that we can justify justice by saying that the creation of a system of justice(a kind of grid of spaces) is one of the most important actions we can do to increase happiness. Justice would then be instrumentally good. To talk more about the dictatorship it seems that we can easily just say that dictatorships don't maximize happiness of human beings. Thus we might be imagining a world with different beings, and not humans when we have this dictatorship(Or some other situation outside of what humanity as we know it has happened). I think we should also talk about what is happiness more. It has been suggested that happiness is just the feeling you get when you accomplish your goals and or function well. I disagree. It seems to me happiness is the ideal mental state. The mental state any person P at time T wants to have more than any other mental state is happiness at time T for person P(it seems to me).
Harm(For a person)= 1-Happiness/% or relevant knowledge known

ciceronianus
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Posted 08/28/09 - 01:30 PM:	#6
I would say there is no "greatest good." There are, instead, quite a few things which may be good. We determine what is good based on an analysis of the circumstances present. Most of us prefer being happy, of course, but to designate it or anything else as the summum bonum is, I think, misguided.
"Let us not pretend to doubt in philosophy what we do not doubt in our hearts."--C.S. Peirce "There is nothing so absurd but some philosopher has said it."--Marcus Tullius Cicero "Philosophy recovers itself when it ceases to be a device for dealing with the problems of philosophers and becomes a method, cultivated by philosophers, for dealing with the problems of men."--John Dewey

slap
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Posted 08/29/09 - 02:30 PM:	#7
You should look up boyd ciceronianus. He tells us that good is a grouping of many other properties that the presence of some substantial set of them makes something good. What they are exactly we don't know, but it would mean that we can't say some greatest good.
Harm(For a person)= 1-Happiness/% or relevant knowledge known

pinguis
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Posted 08/31/09 - 03:22 AM:	#8
Well, if greatest good really exist and it is happiness, my answer will be simply, no. Happiness is the one and only end for you and me and every human being. If you act or pursue something, namely, justice or freedom, you just try to pursue happiness which you ‘think’ will bring you to happiness. Such thing as justice has no intrinsic value. Your society supposes to make you happy. You may cry out loud to sacrifice something to it but you choose to do so because you think it will make you happier than don’t do. Your teachers may punish you because you do something bad but they suppose to make you ‘better’ so if their punishment with a good will to make you be a better boy then it should be a good action. If your society take some of your freedom in order to help you, it is good to do so.

razoredge
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Posted 08/31/09 - 04:55 AM:	#9
Happiness is a very private and personal feeling. The things that make you happy wont be the same things that make some other person happy. We are unique in our mental makeup, in fact each one of us is unique in every aspect of our being. Given a choice between happiness and sorrow, anyone would pick happiness. We are internally wired to always pursue happiness. It is up to you to decide and define what makes you happy and strive to achieve those circumstances. No one can prevent you from pursuing happiness. Dictatorship and democracy are different modes of governance that result in different circumstances of living. In one form of governance the rules are more specific and objectives are clearer, but it impedes on the sense of one's individuality. In the other form of governance, people are allowed the right to express themselves freely and pursue any means of expressing their individuality. Depending on one's mental makeup, there would be a preference for democracy or dictatorship. A free thinker would prefer living in a democratic country versus living in a country where dictatorship is the order of governance. Whereas someone who prefers living according to the guidelines meted out by others, would prefer a dictatorship to democracy. You are never a prisoner of your birth. At any point you can make a very conscious endeavor to pursue happiness. If you are not satisfied with your circumstances, it is in your hands and your hands to change it or move out of it. The pursuit of happiness defines the path you should follow. It is like a beacon. You have the power within you to create the circumstance you want to live in. We are creative beings and our thoughts, intentions and actions help us in pursuing our goal of achieving happiness. No one would ever set goals or consciously stay in circumstances that abet suffering. Justice is important because you will feel extremely let down if you face injustice externally. The pursuit of justice is also the pursuit of happiness in essence. Justice is just one aspect, among many, that can serve to give you happiness. We define our standards of justice and if there is any deviation we use our will and power to achieve the level of justice we desire. The underlying drive is always the pursuit of happiness.

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