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Philosophy and Christianity

Philosophy and Christianity

keving
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Posted 08/16/09 - 10:08 AM: Subject: Philosophy and Christianity	#1
It seems to me that Christianity is the predominate religion that philosophers are most willing to discourse and write upon. Could this be rightly said? If so, why?

BitterCrank
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Posted 08/16/09 - 08:06 PM:	#2
keving wrote: It seems to me that Christianity is the predominate religion that philosophers are most willing to discourse and write upon. Could this be rightly said? If so, why? In my corner of the world, that certainly seems to be the case. However, I doubt that the same situation prevails in southern Asia, the Middle East, China, or Japan. In the last 2000 years of the western tradition, the church itself actively engaged itself in the discussion of philosophy. That philosophers discuss religion, and believers discuss philosophy is a plus, in my book.
If you won't fan the flames of discontent, at least don't join the fire department.

pinguis
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Posted 08/17/09 - 03:25 AM:	#3
Hi. I'm an Asia guy so sorry about my grammar but the good news is I can answer this to you. In my country, God-problem is not that big. We discuss about it but not as much as you do. We do more about our dominate-religion, Buddhism. I'm one of the member of this religion and discuss about it but mainly not about whether our ultimate truth is real but about ethic which has a lot to discuss such as Euthanasia. Hope this help.

keving
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Posted 08/17/09 - 10:04 AM:	#4
Yes, it does. Thank you.

oag
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Posted 08/17/09 - 01:48 PM:	#5
keving wrote: It seems to me that Christianity is the predominate religion that philosophers are most willing to discourse and write upon. Could this be rightly said? If so, why? Western philosophers yes. That is because Christianity was predominant in their lives. I started in on a study of Eastern philosophy and found that Western philosophy is an inland lake compared to the vast ocean of Eastern philosophy. I was overwhelmed and decided it was best to swim in the lake nearby and more familiar to me than to dive into that ocean and be lost. Being thus unfamiliar with the vast majority of Eastern philosophy I don't know that they deal with deity all that much. I've seen some translations of Taoists and such that do include the concept of God but I'm certain it has little in common with the Judeo-Christian concept. One of my favorite books is Kierkegaard's Attack on Christendom. I think it should be required reading for Americans so that they can understand the dangers of theocracy and what motivated people to give up their homes and their lives and flee in rickety boats to an untamed land just to get away from it. It gives a clue as to why Christianity was forefront in their writings back then. It controlled their lives in a way it does not control ours.

Apathy Kills
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Posted 08/17/09 - 03:13 PM:	#6
oaq wrote: I think it should be required reading for Americans so that they can understand the dangers of theocracy and what motivated people to give up their homes and their lives and flee in rickety boats to an untamed land just to get away from it. Yeah. What's ironic though is that those pilgrims and puritans would later instigated the same type of persecution that England did to them. Their desire to flee was not so much the desire for freedom of religion, but freedom for their own religion and their religion only - an insatiable obsession with pure religious inclusivity in their communities. One only has to look at the history of these colonial times to witness such intolerance, hate, and persecution - exiling members of their community (like Anne Hutchinson, for example) for display of freethinking, individuality, or any deviation from the "norm". Yes, Americans should know about the dangers of theocracy from our own history as well as the history of our predecessors. keving wrote: It seems to me that Christianity is the predominate religion that philosophers are most willing to discourse and write upon. Could this be rightly said? If so, why? Christianity plays a predominate role in philosophy in large part because of its early immersion into Greek philosophy at that time. Augustine used Neoplatonic philosophy from Plotinus, as Aquinas used Aristotle, as a platform to build on Christian ideals. Plato's description of the good from immutable and eternal forms appealed to Augustine, while Aquinas was attracted to Aristotle's notion of the prime mover.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire..." Nietzsche

oag
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Posted 08/17/09 - 06:42 PM:	#7
Apathy Kills wrote: Yeah. What's ironic though is that those pilgrims and puritans would later instigated the same type of persecution that England did to them. Their desire to flee was not so much the desire for freedom of religion, but freedom for their own religion and their religion only - an insatiable obsession with pure religious inclusivity in their communities. One only has to look at the history of these colonial times to witness such intolerance, hate, and persecution - exiling members of their community (like Anne Hutchinson, for example) for display of freethinking, individuality, or any deviation from the "norm". Yes, Americans should know about the dangers of theocracy from our own history as well as the history of our predecessors. Good point. I think it really took the unity of purpose in fighting off the economic tyranny of England to galvanize the colonies and at that point our brilliant forefathers were able to banish most of that idealism, religious exclusivity and theocracy. The Constitution and Bill of Rights were astonishing in their scope and foresight but they were written to specifically forbid the sort of religious tyranny that seem innate in human character. It was obviously a foremost freedom on their minds because the depth and breadth of their coverage of it is staggering. It has taken almost 200 years to begin to undo that freedom and return to theocratic thinking. I'm not certain why human societies, left to their own devices, tend toward rule by religion. Perhaps it is our superstitious nature or the desire for knowledge and wisdom that is somehow absolute or from a source other than other human beings...after all we are not to be trusted.

BitterCrank
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Posted 08/18/09 - 06:58 AM:	#8
Apathy Kills wrote: Yeah. What's ironic though is that those pilgrims and puritans would later instigated the same type of persecution that England did to them. Their desire to flee was not so much the desire for freedom of religion, but freedom for their own religion and their religion only - an insatiable obsession with pure religious inclusivity in their communities. One only has to look at the history of these colonial times to witness such intolerance, hate, and persecution - exiling members of their community (like Anne Hutchinson, for example) for display of freethinking, individuality, or any deviation from the "norm". Yes, Americans should know about the dangers of theocracy from our own history as well as the history of our predecessors. Its not irony, its just more of the same. The Puritans didn't leave England to get away from established religion. They wanted established religion in England, it was just that they came out on the losing end of the battle for political control over WHICH version would be established. The Puritans wanted to excise any trace of "Roman" or "Papist" elements from the Church of England. Once they got to Massachusetts, they busily set up the established religion they wanted. Freedom is the established religion you believe in, tyranny is the established religion you don't believe in. (The Puritans survive, by the way, in the form of the United Church of Christ, otherwise known as "Congregationalists." The case of the Puritans, the Pilgrims, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Hutterites, and so on is a vital piece of American history. Because the United States didn't have an established religion, American Christian churches were free to refine the creeds they believed in. This was done through schism, usually. A group of Baptists, for instance, would decide that most of the other Baptists were back sliding so they broke off into a new, refined, purer-than-thou group. This has happened over and over again in American congregations. It is currently happening in the Episcopal church, and it may (at this very moment) be happening in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA). The ELCA national convention is taking up the subject of homosexual clergy, and it appears that it will be a close vote either way, 51% in favor, or 49% in favor of ordaining gay clergy. The ELCA is a recombination of previous splits, many of them over language (synods were organized for German, Norwegian, Swedish, or English speaking immigrant congregations. There were also doctrinal splits. Many of the members of the ELCA are people who left the formerly German-speaking, doctrinally conservative Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. The Missouri Synod had a huge blow up and schism about 40 years ago. If you don't especially like religion, this may all seem very tedious, but I think disputatiousness is the reason why Christianity is still vital and dominant in American society - as opposed to nearly moribund in countries with a history of established Christianity, like Great Britain. The process of splitting up revitalizes both sides. So do mergers (usually). The United Methodist Church is made up of a combination of the Methodists and Evangelical United Brethren. These two groups had a parallel history, rather than a history of conflict and schism. So, if you want the Gospel to flourish, welcome conflict.
If you won't fan the flames of discontent, at least don't join the fire department.

BitterCrank
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Posted 08/18/09 - 07:09 AM:	#9
pinguis wrote: Hi. I'm an Asia guy so sorry about my grammar but the good news is I can answer this to you. In my country, God-problem is not that big. We discuss about it but not as much as you do. We do more about our dominate-religion, Buddhism. I'm one of the member of this religion and discuss about it but mainly not about whether our ultimate truth is real but about ethic which has a lot to discuss such as Euthanasia. Hope this help. Glad you popped up to answer the question. But here are two more requests: Could you give us (me, at least) a couple of examples of Buddhism/philosophy discussions about what is real, or not real. Would you tell us how Buddhists tend to respond to ethical questions, such as euthanasia, or another hot ethical issue. Nothing fancy, just a sample. Thanks!
If you won't fan the flames of discontent, at least don't join the fire department.

Apathy Kills
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Posted 08/18/09 - 01:06 PM:	#10
Bittercrank wrote: Its not irony, its just more of the same. I was being ironical when i said it was ironic. Well said, my friend.
"Here the ways of men part: if you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you wish to be a devotee of truth, then inquire..." Nietzsche

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