Objectual and Propositional Belief: Philosophy Forums

Objectual and Propositional Belief

Algazel
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Posted 07/05/09 - 02:13 AM: Subject: Objectual and Propositional Belief	#1
I originally posted this question in the introductory list but there doesn't seem to be any takers. I'm working through Audi's contemporary epistemology and hoping someone might be able to help. What I'm trying to understand is his distinction between propositional and objectual belief. Let me write it out as I understand it and if someone could graciously explain if I'm right or wrong, add information, or provide good examples, it would be greatly appreciated. Propositional belief - a belief or property attributed to a thing which is formally conceptualised or named. Hence the belief can be correctly or fully predicated to the concept of that thing - a conceptualized subject (named-de dicto). e.g. The field is rectangular; where I know the meaning/concept of the word field. Objectual belief - a belief or property attributed to a thing directly, where a person does not have a formal/conceptual appreciation of the thing being described. Hence the belief cannot be predicated to a known or determined subject, but only on general terms. Belief is de re - of the thing. This big green thing I see (field) is rectangular; even if don't actually know what a field is. I'm trying to understand the difference between propositional and objectual belief firstly without reference to de re/de dicto terminology, and then to bring them in. please please comment. The more informed explanations the better.

Aetixintro
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Posted 07/05/09 - 05:21 AM:	#2
It reads like a twist on observables and unobservables. I'm not into the book so I'm of no good use to you.
Efficacy of "for since it is at present manifest to me that even bodies are not properly known by the senses nor by the faculty of imagination, but by the understanding alone" - Descartes, Meditation II I'm always wanting more, Anything I haven't got, Everything, I want it all, I just can't stop - The Cure, Want

Algazel
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Posted 07/05/09 - 09:49 AM: Subject: details	#3
sorry for being a bit stingy with the background information ... let me set the scene. The issue of propositional and objectual belief comes up in the first chapter which is on 'perception'. Audi sets the scene by explaining that there at least four elements involved in perception: 1. The subject, 2. The object, 3. The sensory experience, and 4. The relationship between the subject and object - generally causal. Then Audi explains that there are three different ways of speaking about perception: the first is 'simple perception' - the experience without any corresponding belief. On top of this you have two other modes of perception each carrying a different belief attached to it. The first is called 'perceiving to be' - objectual belief. the second is 'perceiving that' - propositional belief.

Nathaniel Fenris
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Posted 07/09/09 - 04:22 PM:	#4
You actually have a good grasp of the situation but another perspective might help. This is from a lecture by Branden Fitelson, professor of logic at Berkeley: http://www.fitelson.org/122/lecture_2_2x2.pdf Start at Perception I.8 and I.9. Edited by Incision on 07/10/09 - 04:12 PM. Reason: capitalization, punctuation

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