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Ideas
do they exist?

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Ideas

Adamus
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Posted 06/24/09 - 12:40 AM: Subject: Ideas	#1
Do ideas exist? If we assume that we exist, then surely these ideas which we create in our mind also exist? However, do they need some physical manifestation to be a property of reality? If we come to the conclusion that ideas do exist then what about ideas that do not correspond with reality? If to exist is to be true, to be real, then how can these false ideas be true?
The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men - Plato

RoboticHand
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Posted 06/24/09 - 03:15 AM:	#2
Depends on your philosophical point of view. This same question could be posed for thoughts and beliefs. They are all abstracts of the mind. They are not physical/material things, however, that does not negate the fact that they do not exist. Ideas physically manifest themselves. When one puts an idea into practice, such as democracy or communism, we can see the results of said idea, thus it becomes real. Ideas only correspond to reality if we want them to, if we make them our reality. I'd say there are no false or true ideas, it's all a matter of perspective.

Kamerynn
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Posted 06/24/09 - 04:49 AM:	#3
Adamus wrote: Do ideas exist? If we assume that we exist, then surely these ideas which we create in our mind also exist? However, do they need some physical manifestation to be a property of reality? If we come to the conclusion that ideas do exist then what about ideas that do not correspond with reality? If to exist is to be true, to be real, then how can these false ideas be true? What do you mean by "exist"? This is a problem in many of the threads on these forums (such as "does infinity exist"). Do you mean to imply that they're physical? That they're "furniture of the universe," to use one of Wittgenstien's phrases? If you simply mean, by "exist," that "it is true," then it's clear that false ideas "don't exist." That's certainly an odd way to use the word "exist," don't you agree?
When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -- R. Buckminster Fuller

wuliheron
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Posted 06/24/09 - 11:30 AM:	#4
No, it's all in your head so there is no point in discussing the matter.

Adamus
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Posted 06/24/09 - 11:36 AM:	#5
Kamerynn wrote: What do you mean by "exist"? This is a problem in many of the threads on these forums (such as "does infinity exist"). Do you mean to imply that they're physical? That they're "furniture of the universe," to use one of Wittgenstien's phrases? If you simply mean, by "exist," that "it is true," then it's clear that false ideas "don't exist." That's certainly an odd way to use the word "exist," don't you agree? I purposely left my thoughts ambiguous in order to stiulate debate, However, if an object in question "exists" then surely it is part of reality (if we assume this universe is real)? and cannot everything that exists and is real also be called "true"? I dont think we would find anyone arguing that apples are not true or that planets are false? However the problem i am highlighting is the one that arises when there is no physical property.
The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men - Plato

wuliheron
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Posted 06/24/09 - 10:27 PM:	#6
Physical properties are observed and measured according to their relationships, why should ideas be any different?

Willowz
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Posted 06/24/09 - 11:27 PM:	#7
Adamus wrote: Do ideas exist? If we assume that we exist, then surely these ideas which we create in our mind also exist? Not nessecarily. Idea's are not a part of the visible reality, they can be "The Forms". Idea's can also be a normal occurrence in the brain, using reason this idea is more reasonable. Adamus wrote: However, do they need some physical manifestation to be a property of reality? That would be likely, otherwise you'd have a zoo in your house when waking up. Your mind can create it's own reality. While dreaming you create what has already been seen in reality. You might say that we don't have free will in dreams, that is something you can work on and one day dreams can become a "separate" "reality". Adamus wrote: If we come to the conclusion that ideas do exist then what about ideas that do not correspond with reality? If to exist is to be true, to be real, then how can these false ideas be true? You gave yourself the answer.
This song will prepare you for a good smile.

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 06/25/09 - 05:48 AM: Subject: true & not(true)	#8
Adamus: Do ideas exist? nousPLOTINU: Yes. Only a fool would negate all those bad ideas that ferment in some of the minds of the population. Adamus: If we assume that we exist, then surely these ideas which we create in our mind also exist? nousPLOTINU: Yes. Yes, ideas have a true mental existence apart from the reality of the external physical world. Adamus: If we come to the conclusion that ideas do exist then what about ideas that do not correspond with reality? nousPLOTINU: They remain ideas. Adamus: If to exist is to be true, to be real, then how can these false ideas be true? nousPLOTINU: Those ideas are untrue for external reality because they are unsupportablew in the universe, but they are true for some mental existence.
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 06/25/09 - 05:54 AM:	#9
Kamerynn wrote: What do you mean by "exist"? This is a problem in many of the threads on these forums (such as "does infinity exist"). Do you mean to imply that they're physical? That they're "furniture of the universe," to use one of Wittgenstien's phrases? If you simply mean, by "exist," that "it is true," then it's clear that false ideas "don't exist." That's certainly an odd way to use the word "exist," don't you agree? Kamerynn, You should help us with all the misinformation on these sites. What you may describe as a problem may only be resident in your own mind. Philosophy is geared to help people resolve mental characteristics of the world we face on a daily basis, especially for those who are interested. If you remove the problem then you would have provided a path towards the solution, so cooperate, or face cooperation.
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

nousPLOTINU
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Posted 06/25/09 - 05:57 AM:	#10
wuliheron wrote: Physical properties are observed and measured according to their relationships, why should ideas be any different? er, um, probably because the presence of an idea must be inferred. That's my idea! Is it your idea or the discovery of a newer relationship?
It is not that I think I know, it is that I know when I think.

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