Do we truly understand democracy?: Philosophy Forums

Do we truly understand democracy?

Mr Ivanov
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Posted 06/11/09 - 03:35 PM: Subject: Do we truly understand democracy?	#1
I should apologize- this post is aimed directly at the American posters on this forum. Purely out of curiosity I would like to ask how many of you were told of or studied in detail names like John Locke, Charles de Secondat, Thomas Hobbes, Edmund Burke, etc. in your American history classes in high school? This is interesting to me because I, for one, was basically taught that the American government was the product of a bunch of upper class guys with wigs who spontaneously gave birth to one of the most complex and well-developed democracies in human history. Its a shame because understanding this country, IMO, requires a good knowledge not only of the Enlightenment but also the Protestant Reformation, the Renaissance, Ancient Greece, etc. Have most of you had the same experience as me or were some of you actually taught the history of democratic thought in your high school American history classes?

unenlightened
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Posted 06/11/09 - 04:44 PM:	#2
I am fortunately not American, so I will simply recommend, on the origins of the US, the novel by John Barth, The Sot Weed Factor.
...most of our actions are the result of the past, or according to a future ideal. That's not action, that is just conformity. J Krishnamurti "Philosophy, to the Philistine, is an evolutionary process, watched over by some sort of brisk dynamic Providence, and culminating in the supreme insight of modern thought." John Cowper Powys

swstephe
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Posted 06/11/09 - 05:08 PM:	#3
I'm an American who went through the public school system. I never heard any of those names before I started studying philosophy in college and my own. As far as the history books, Thomas Jefferson came up with the whole concept of democracy from scratch, with maybe some influence from ancient Greek philosophy. <sarcasm>Maybe it is some lingering doubts about how to explain to American kids how upstanding white rich American geniuses could have learned from a bunch British philosophers ... wait, and a French guy? Every American child is taught that the French are weak, effeminate and smelly. Their philosophers are all pinko commie "emo's" that were popular with kids in the 50's and 60's before they all became traitors and ran away to Canada, Cuba, England and other third world countries.</sarcasm> Anyway, we were taught Democracy and Capitalism "good", everything else "bad".
Ethics is the measuring of morality. Morality is the measuring of good. Good is the measuring of benefit. Benefit is the measure of values.

Pharnax
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Posted 06/11/09 - 05:11 PM:	#4
Mr Ivanov wrote: one of the most complex and well-developed democracies in human history. The term "indoctrination" comes to mind The french have already covered this extensively, I'd recommend Tocqueville and Foucault.

PontificatingChauncy
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Posted 06/23/09 - 09:59 AM:	#5
Oddly enough, when I took these classes in H.S. (three years ago) I learned that someone gave them the idea in my history class (required) and didn't actually learn who Locke or Hobbes were until my philosophy class (an elective taken by at most 300 of my 900 member graduating class) For the most part, my history teacher seemed to assume that anything important about the founding was old news, and was surprised when I mentioned the next year (she also taught philosophy) that none of our earlier teachers had mentioned them!
The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao. That thing is a chauncy

mikelepore
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Posted 06/30/09 - 09:52 PM:	#6
In their younger days, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Alexander Hamilton were educated in Scotland. That was the major way that the influence of Thomas Paine was transmitted into the U.S. government. Jefferson's phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" was taken verbatim from Paine. More about this in the book Robert W. Galvin, _America's Founding Secret: What the Scottish Enlightenment Taught Our Founding Fathers_, published by Rowman and Littlefield, 2002. The suggestion to have three semi-independent branches of government, the executive, legislative and judicial, had been proposed earlier by Jean-Jacques Rousseau.

Simple Occam
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Posted 07/20/09 - 05:40 PM:	#7
THe US government is best be described as a constitutional oligarchy. It is rule of law, where the people who make and enforce the laws are elected or appointed representatives of the general public, who serve the interests of a few wealthy and powerful capitalists in a way that is intened to perpetuate their own political and financial interests.

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