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Thought as a Multiverse Proof

Dionysusigma
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Posted 12/28/07 - 03:45 AM: Subject: Thought as a Multiverse Proof	#1
Note: I am new here, so go easy on me. I tried searching for something related to the topic, and nothing came up. I also am not sure which forum it would fall under. Things I believe to be self-evident: 1) The laws of physics, as humanity understands them, apply to everything, everywhere. There are no exceptions, barring metaphysical intervention (God). 2) The universe, and everything in it, exists; how long, or how it started is of no importance (to this discussion, anyway). It began at a definite (if indeterminate) time. 3) Instincts of "lower life forms" are reactions to a condition or series of conditions; a hungry animal will eat, a tired one will rest. Instinct, then, is a "programmed" response, a reflex. It is not a conscious thought. 4) Time is, for this discussion, linear. More accurately, a ray (single point with a line radiating away). When the universe was formed by God, or the Big Bang, or a mischevious young God playing with fireworks, or a giant turtle, or a flying spaghetti monster, it had the same physics governing it then as it does now (see #1). Matter formed into galaxies, stars, planets, moons, asteroids, comets, elements, dark matter, and George Burns jokes. As time went on, some planets formed into places that could support life, while others remained much like New Jersey. Single-celled organisms formed, which evolved into slightly more complex forms of life, which evolved into Scotsmen, which in turn evolved into higher forms of life such as fish and the like. Eventually, shortly after the discovery of fire, a caveman burned himself and his family laughed at him. Thus, emotion came into existance, followed closely by conscious thought as the caveman thought about whether he should put something on that blister, or let it heal on its own. Thus, the first split of the universe formed into two paths--one in which the caveman let the blister go away over time, and another in which the caveman put a Band-Aid over it. Later in the week, a dinosaur ate the caveman, as often happens to cavemen. George Burns jokes were told at his funeral, and a debate ensued as to whether some should never be spoken again, or if they should be shared with a neighboring tribe. Thus, another split was formed--one in which the jokes were laid to rest for all eternity as they should have been, and another where the first comedy club was formed, featuring George Burns jokes (ironically, the family adopted this name after their fallen ancestor). Time is a constant, subject to the aforementioned laws of physics. However, only after the implementation of conscious thought did the universe begin to split, as it continues to do so immeasurably to this moment. Wondering "what might have happened" isn't the idle thought that drinking buddies and old men on rocking chairs say it is. What "might have happened" actually has, but not in this line that we inhabit. Comments? Thoughts, lest we rend the universe again?
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein

Gulnara
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Posted 04/21/09 - 08:27 AM:	#2
Something border less as Universe, or a groups of Universes, can or even must have every possible form of existence and every possible event included in it. All the other parallel or even angled Universes are destined to produce our alternatives, all of them. If there were a connection, a network of senses mutual to all of our alternatives, I wonder how would that feel as a sum of all possible conditions? Would it feel like nothing, because they would eliminate each other? Then again, perhaps there is only a set of possibilities and alternatives, not an unending amount of them. Each Universe might have its own set of jig puzzles, the systems within which similar to us creatures can exist. They would be not completely like humans, because of other "alternatives " happening to their environment thus shifting the entire ecological process.
G.E.

wuliheron
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Posted 04/21/09 - 09:33 AM:	#3
To quote Chuang Tzu, "Once I dreamed I was a butterfly, or am I really a butterfly dreaming I am a man?"

Gulnara
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Posted 04/21/09 - 09:57 AM:	#4
Even on our planet we see how various environments change people. The different races are mainly produced by the different natural environment. If environment was the same on the entire planet, we'd have only one rase of people. "What might have happened" if I lived for thousands of years in Norway? I'd be Norvegian, or I'd be extinct, or I'd migrate South East and after 100 generations turn into Chinese. What did not happen to me, have happened to others. Where I succeeded, someone failed, where I failed, someone succeeded.
G.E.

MensRea
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Posted 04/21/09 - 10:44 AM:	#5
Dionysusigma, I enjoyed your post, but I'm not sure whether I understand your argument. It's not clear to me that merely because an agent could have done otherwise, they do in fact do otherwise (in some alternate world). Yesterday, I wore my white shoes. I could have worn my black shoes, but I didn't. To say that "I could have worn my black shoes" seems to indicate that we can conceive of a world in which I wore my black shoes yesterday, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that said world exists (in anything more than the logically possible sense). 'I could have worn my white shoes' is also a true statement, as is 'I did wear my white shoes'. Couldn't we just say that 'I could have worn my white shoes' doesn't necessitate the existence of a world in which I wore my white shoes, unless I actually did. We have two hypotheses in play here (though we could certainly conceive of more). (1) The world or universe 'splits' whenever a conscious decision is made. (2) Whenever a conscious decision is made, alternate possibilities 'die off' and the extant world follows one chain of events. I don't see how you're doing much more than offering (1) as a possibility.

Wandering_Learner
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Posted 10/27/09 - 02:49 AM:	#6
I have had similar discussions with my friends, however I have had many different pitfalls (most of which has been expressed by MensRea. However, for the sake of curiosity, I propose a different theory. In order to bring in some other force (god or some other entity) i propose that the specific Entity has put in our path certain obstacles for us, as a humanity, to deal with. And with those obstacles there is simply 2 choices, and there is the split. Over all i'm saying that rather than EVERY LITTLE thing creating another universe there are only CERTAIN instances where all living things are affected that create parallel universes. Ps- i am an amateur philosopher. VERY amateur.

Advinar
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Posted 10/28/09 - 04:01 PM:	#7
I'd like to point out the mistake here. You're saying that a new universe is created each time a different choice is made. The real multi-verse theory states that there ARE (CURRENTLY) an infinite number of universes because of an infinite number of universes anything you can conceive to have happened will have happened somewhere in one of these universes.

Desidude666
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Posted 10/28/09 - 10:25 PM:	#8
Perhaps it's the issue of our size? Should we shrink to insect size, the universe would then become a lot more bigger, and perhaps infinite, and limited in dimension. Now imagine the scaling of your own perspective. Perhaps, a multiverse is nothing more than a 3rd perspective (3rd dimension) view on a different space? If you add in additional dimensions, how would then the universe be judged. What about the contentious string theory's 11 dimensions? Perhaps it's a matter of scale. The limitations imposed by our size gives us an illusion of a limited and predictable universe. Scale it to a million times in size, you have a entirely different picture! On theological philosophy, the Hindus have been the first (even surpassing the Greeks) in proposing a deity (outside Gaia, it's the universe for them) in which the universe exists. So take the theology out, it's a remarkable proposition. Imagine yourself at the size of a minor germ, or even a cell. If space is near-infinite, surely the empty space would seem occupied at a certain scale. On that scale, whether it exists or not, we have an entirely different view altogether. Perhaps we're a part of a 'God' or part of his limb, or perhaps our universe merely might be bioelectric energy in his limb? That's the deist position, however, the idea isn't theology, it's about a multiverse. Why not suggest scaling?
What you are, you are by accident of birth; what I am, I am by myself. There are and will be a thousand princes; there is only one Beethoven. - Ludwig van Beethoven

throng
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Posted 10/28/09 - 11:31 PM:	#9
I guess it suggests alternative presents exist. The past is the road to the present and the future is imagined from the present. The present is a very small point, the only question is how many presents could there be?
I know that I don't know, so I don't know if I do.

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