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Einstein vs Kant

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Posted 08/30/09 - 03:26 PM:	#71
marmot wrote: This is why it is difficult to imagine curved space, because under ordinary conversation, "curved space" has absolutely no sense. It seems only as difficult as drawing a triangle on the surface of a basketball or saddle.
The question isn't "Which explanations do I believe?" but rather "Which explanations do I least disbelieve?" Absence of evidence THAT MUST BE THERE (i.e. implied by any claim, concept, or (its) predicates, that affects changes in/to the world) entails evidence of absence. [What cannot be done?[What cannot be hoped?[What cannot be known?]]]

marmot
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0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 08/30/09 - 04:44 PM:	#72
That is not what people mean when using "space" in ordinary conversations. What you are trying to visualize is a manifold, which is a mathematical structure.

ragus
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Posted 08/30/09 - 10:31 PM:	#73
marmot wrote That is not what people mean when using "space" in ordinary conversations. In what ways do people talk about ordinary (common-sense?) space that are different from other ways of talking?
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

cosscos
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Posted 08/31/09 - 02:58 AM:	#74
People say that the singularity is spacetime in which space and time are infinite. Apart from faster than the speed of light, nothing wouldn't get out of it. What I'd like to ask is, the singularty point is the thing in itself which kant talked about? cc

marmot
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Posted 08/31/09 - 11:28 AM:	#75
ragus wrote: marmot wrote In what ways do people talk about ordinary (common-sense?) space that are different from other ways of talking? Several ways. To a mathematician space is axiomatic - something is a space if it follows certain axioms. Its a very specific and formal structure. You can have infinite dimentional spaces, you can also have two dimentional spaces, etc. Mathematicians call their spaces "space" because it might make a good analogy, but it is not the same as in "the space between two houses" "there is nothing, just space" "I left space in the board" To think that relativitys spacetime is "real" requires the reification of pretty abstruse mathematics. Its platonic through and through.

ragus
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Posted 08/31/09 - 11:33 AM:	#76
marmot wrote To think that relativitys spacetime is "real" requires the reification of pretty abstruse mathematics. OK. I know what you're saying but then what is "real" space?
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

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0 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 09/01/09 - 11:33 PM:	#77
ragus wrote: marmot wrote OK. I know what you're saying but then what is "real" space? That is the error here. Asking "what is space" lacks sense. Just look at the way people use the word "space". It certainly has very little to do with mathematical manifolds and geodesics.

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1 of 1 people found this post helpful Posted 09/02/09 - 03:45 AM:	#78
marmot wrote: To think that relativitys spacetime is "real" requires the reification of pretty abstruse mathematics. Its platonic through and through. That position seems hard to justify in the face of the actual power that spacetime has on the actual course of events that we can observe. The bending of light due to gravity, the expansion of the universe, the time dilation of radio signals bounced through the solar system, the difference between clocks in orbit and clocks on the ground, ... All these things are because of the influence of the stress-energy tensor describing the contents of spacetime on spacetime and the way that changes in spacetime dictate the course of events. The geometry of spacetime plays a real, measurable role.
"Scientific truth is always paradox, if judged by everyday experience, which catches only the delusive nature of things." - KM, V, P and P Can you pass Religion 101?

ragus
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Posted 09/02/09 - 10:09 AM:	#79
marmot wrote Asking "what is space" lacks sense. I asked about "real" space because you claimed that some spaces aren't "real" but anyway why does asking "what is space" lack sense?
"A word in your ear is like an untethered goat in a field" Wittigenstein

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